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Old 11-01-2012, 13:48   #196
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Reading about the Westsnail and racing on the same thread makes me think of old farts.

b.
hmmm haven't been called that before. It must be hell being between the devil and the deep blue sea.

What kind of boat do you have?
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Old 11-01-2012, 14:11   #197
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Originally Posted by GWB View Post
hmmm haven't been called that before. It must be hell being between the devil and the deep blue sea.

What kind of boat do you have?
I did not call you that. Avoid implying things and we may yet become great friends.

I have a sailing boat.

What kind of boat do you have? ;-) Just joking!

Best regards,
b.
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Old 11-01-2012, 14:18   #198
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I did not call you that. Avoid implying things and we may yet become great friends.

I have a sailing boat.

What kind of boat do you have? ;-) Just joking!

Best regards,
b.
Wait. You implied, no stated that hearing about Westsails and racing made you think about old farts.
So you call my boat a derogatory name and by implication me an "old fart" and then suggest that we might become good friends?

I see.
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Old 11-01-2012, 14:22   #199
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

GWB,

They're just messing with you. Let it go. We know what we know about our W32s and that is cool. Other people might think our boats are "old farts". That is fine. Not everyone has to like everything.

Its best to try to smile while reading all this stuff.

=)
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Old 11-01-2012, 14:32   #200
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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GWB,

They're just messing with you. Let it go. We know what we know about our W32s and that is cool. Other people might think our boats are "old farts". That is fine. Not everyone has to like everything.

Its best to try to smile while reading all this stuff.

=)
Tate or Dani -

I am smiling when I read this stuff!
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Old 11-01-2012, 14:40   #201
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pirate Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Originally Posted by UnlikelyVoyager View Post
One funny thing about Westsails, every thread that starts with the innocent question, 'what do you think about the Westsail 32?' end in an argument. It's amazing that this boat can still stir such passion. That alone is a testament to it's enduring importance to the sport.
But only in America... the rest of the worlds never heard of them...
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Old 11-01-2012, 14:52   #202
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Originally Posted by GWB View Post
Wait. You implied, no stated that hearing about Westsails and racing made you think about old farts.
So you call my boat a derogatory name and by implication me an "old fart" and then suggest that we might become good friends?

I see.
But off course we can make friends! Why not?

It may be just a bit more difficult if you keep on saying I called you or your boat something derogatory. Westsnail is not a derogatory term, it is a common name. The official name is Westsail, just racers will not use it.

If you want, you can call my boat a tub (which she practically is, give or take some cast iron and canvas). And to make a bad situation worse, I will share here with you (while zillions of ears are listening): my boat's LYS is ....1.0. YES! Meaning - I get there when I get there, while others have to go faster, still others SLOWER, to match me round the cans!

So, if you still mistrust me (which I could understand - after all I am a MONSTER) please feel free to read any of my many posts related to Westsails on this forum. You will find that I like Westsails very much and I sink them only if they try to sail faster than me in any race where the main prize is a BOTTLE OF RUM.

Since this is not the case with you, why shouldn't we be friends?

OK. How does it sound? Friends then?

Hugs,
barnakiel
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Old 11-01-2012, 14:57   #203
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

"They're just messing with you."

Could someone please explain the definition of "troll"?


Sorry but this thread has gone way past useful, it's now just entertainment!
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Old 11-01-2012, 15:04   #204
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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This message is hidden because barnakiel is on your ignore list.
I'm sorry, did you say something?
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Old 11-01-2012, 15:07   #205
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Originally Posted by Tinman 13 View Post
"They're just messing with you."

Could someone please explain the definition of "troll"?


Sorry but this thread has gone way past useful, it's now just entertainment!
"Past useful?"

Well, by asking about trolling (yes, most of us do know the definition) you did not push it much forward either.

Trolling is asking questions about trolling in a thread devoted to Westsail. E.g..

b.
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Old 11-01-2012, 15:11   #206
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

G'Day all,

No horse in this race, but I do have a comment about the arguments:

Using the results of a trans-oceanic race to demonstrate the superiority or inferiority of a boat design is pretty specious.

Surely by now we all know that in a race (or passage) of such length the decisions made by individual skippers and the variability of weather trump differences in boat performance, and by a big margin, too. For instance, when crossing the equator, the ITCZ changes in width on a daily basis, and also with longitude. Boats that attempt crossing the doldrums a few days or a hundred miles apart may find vastly different conditions, differences that can mean days added to one's passage time. And this is but one of the routing decisions that come up. So, the passage times are interesting but not very conclusive evidence of boat performance.

On the W-32, seems pretty obvious that a well prepared and equipped one (like Sarabande, which was race-prepped and equipped with a great suit of sails) can perform well on a primarily downwind passage. The typical cruising W-32 won't do as well, but can still make good passages. Upwind, most owners report poorer performance, but still, upwind passages can be made. (None of us really like them, but sometimes the places we want to go to lie to windward... what's a body to do?).

The acrimony that has developed on this subject is fairly distasteful and does nothing to promote the W-32 design.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 11-01-2012, 15:12   #207
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

Trolling on CF is kinda fitting - if one ignores how the term was re-defined by the landlubbers as someone living under a bridge.
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Old 11-01-2012, 15:22   #208
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
G'Day all,

No horse in this race, but I do have a comment about the arguments:

Using the results of a trans-oceanic race to demonstrate the superiority or inferiority of a boat design is pretty specious.

Surely by now we all know that in a race (or passage) of such length the decisions made by individual skippers and the variability of weather trump differences in boat performance, and by a big margin, too. For instance, when crossing the equator, the ITCZ changes in width on a daily basis, and also with longitude. Boats that attempt crossing the doldrums a few days or a hundred miles apart may find vastly different conditions, differences that can mean days added to one's passage time. And this is but one of the routing decisions that come up. So, the passage times are interesting but not very conclusive evidence of boat performance.

On the W-32, seems pretty obvious that a well prepared and equipped one (like Sarabande, which was race-prepped and equipped with a great suit of sails) can perform well on a primarily downwind passage. The typical cruising W-32 won't do as well, but can still make good passages. Upwind, most owners report poorer performance, but still, upwind passages can be made. (None of us really like them, but sometimes the places we want to go to lie to windward... what's a body to do?).

The acrimony that has developed on this subject is fairly distasteful and does nothing to promote the W-32 design.

Cheers,

Jim
Yes, this is the biggest regret I have in getting involved in these types of threads.

On the other hand, if misinformation and name calling (like the name barnakiel uses) is allowed to proliferate the message boards then people who are looking at purchasing a Westsail get a skewed picture of the boat.

Many of us Westsail owners like our boats and would like to set the record straight.
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Old 11-01-2012, 15:35   #209
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

Other than trawling, I think that Westsail, sometimes spelled Westsnail, (which is well justified while by some considered a derogatory) is a great piece of cruising equipment.

It is not the fastest of boats (a J of comparable WL will be at least twice as fast) but it was never designed to be a racing boat, so why bother.

Neither is it the safest of boats around as has been proven by the many cases when they lost their rig or were badly knocked down. This might be explained by the numbers of them cruising, but IMHO it will be a poor explanation. The other possible explanation is they are heavy boats, sail slow and are difficult to control in heavy going. Still other explanation could be some sailors believe they have a boat so safe they do not have to take care of her in heavy weather. But since explanations are theories rather than hard facts, why bother.

Neither are they the most comfortable boats to sail on - broad reaching and downwind they roll much more than many newer designs. Broad reaching and downwind is how most of cruising tends to be done unless the boat is a fast one and points well. Then one can go anywhere they wish. But since in life, and on the globe, there are many ways to get to the same point, then why bother.

They have most uncomfortable cockpit. I quite like this cockpit as it does not hold the boat down when pooped. And one will, in any slow going double-ender, unless she has a stern designed like HCH. I like HCH's cockpit even more than I like Westsail's one.

That's it.

Now the good thing is they are quite attractive to (some) eyes. They tend to be strong built and well priced. They are very spacious down below, many have great engine access, they do not bang upwind, they can take ground, carry plenty of cruising gear and take their owner to the dream destinations.

In my eyes, the last point prevails.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 11-01-2012, 15:49   #210
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Originally Posted by GWB View Post
Yes, this is the biggest regret I have in getting involved in these types of threads.

On the other hand, if misinformation and name calling (like the name barnakiel uses) is allowed to proliferate the message boards then people who are looking at purchasing a Westsail get a skewed picture of the boat.

Many of us Westsail owners like our boats and would like to set the record straight.

Well said GWB.

One thing a reader will hopefully get out of this thread is we as Westsail owners get tired of the constant bashing and degrading comments from supposed posters that KNOW these boats are slow, or can't go to weather or whatever.

For God's sake if you can do no more than repeat negative hearsay about a boat, or anything for that mater, then that doesn't help your credibility.

I wonder what it says about Westsail owners that they don't seem to spend all day posting about other boats that they may or not have ever sailed on as if they were an expert.

I suppose one of the advantages of an internet forum is you can chose to reply or not. With over 8,000 viewers there is a good chance some of the misinformation spread around will be believed.

THAT is what we as Westsail owners would like to change.

I'm done trolling......
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