Westsail 32/Ingrid 38 Angle of Vanishing Stability?

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Most boats do

Dave

?

Dave: I am not clear. Do you mean most boats come back from being inverted with their rig intact or rather that they come back from knockdowns?

Just asking because I believe when a boat gets upside down most of the time they come back without rig. The rig being still on that Westsail might have explained (to some extent) what took her so long (especially if she got capsized with some sails up).

BTW I would not put too much faith into boats that 'come back from knockdowns everytime'. Much better one that does not get knocked down all that often! ;-) smiley here and there

b.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

?

Dave: I am not clear. Do you mean most boats come back from being inverted with their rig intact or rather that they come back from knockdowns?

Just asking because I believe when a boat gets upside down most of the time they come back without rig. The rig being still on that Westsail might have explained (to some extent) what took her so long (especially if she got capsized with some sails up).

BTW I would not put too much faith into boats that 'come back from knockdowns everytime'. Much better one that does not get knocked down all that often! ;-) smiley here and there

b.

You mentioned 90 degree knockdowns. That's my experience the rig stays on. In full inversion ( which is a 180 knockdown) , which is very rare the whole boat typically gets trashed.

Dave

[barnakiel]

Yep. That's also my impression from some lecture and some experience.

That Westsail remaining inverted for that long might be a mix of the rig holding her, flat decks, light ballast (as discussed above they were ballasted in many ways). Maybe she got flooded too. Things like this tend to keep the boat in the inverted position for longer.

b.

[CrazyRu]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yep. That's also my impression from some lecture and some experience.
b.

Besides Satory story, there is another very interesting book about a storm and boats in it.
"Rescue in Pacific"
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0070486190
In my opinion it is a must read for any westsail owner wannabe.

[Target9000]

Our boat survived a 360 degree roll over off the coast of Africa and came up with the rig in tact. The sails were totally shredded to pieces but the rig held. This happened to the previous owners while on their third circumnavigation. An account of their travels (and the roll over) is here:
Previous Owners « Sundowner sails again

[gjordan]

Hey Guys! Lets Get Real, less than one half of 1 percent of boats ever take a 90 degree knockdown, and the ones that do a 360 are a very very small number. Both of the boats being discussed here are rock solid cruising boats . They will take you anywhere your skills will allow. I personally would go with the Ingred for a much more comfortable boat , but the bank account will make the finale decision. IMO____Grant.

[stillbuilding]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

BTW I would not put too much faith into boats that 'come back from knockdowns everytime'. Much better one that does not get knocked down all that often! ;-) smiley here and there

b.

I knew of a 53' sloop in Sydney which would poke its nose out into the ocean, fall over and stay down until the wind dropped. Changed owners many times and was fine in the harbour but never went to sea. Probably still there. Still had the original rig - must have been a good boat!

[europaflyer]

Big thanks for all the replies guys, I'm fully reassured about the boats!

[SkiprJohn]

I'd sail either of them anywhere without worries. They will both outlast the humans aboard. Scotty got knocked down by a White Squall on his Ingrid and the boat was no worse for wear. The wind was strong enough to peel the paint off his wind generator. I believe he posted the story here on the forum a few years ago.
Martin and I sailed the same boat in seas I'd not want to be in again for a long time.
kind regards,

[Butler]

These "numbers " tell a story of one sort but it's far from the entire story isn't it? My little bit of experience includes an understanding of wieght carrying ability, just as others have mentioned, and particularly medium and heavy displacement the role that weight carrying played in the original design. My Columbia Challenger raced/sailed better with more weight than I would have expected... the shallow keel dropped lower and dug in much better. The bouyancy of the hull shape came into play more thoroughly.
The distribution of weight of supplies etc. low inside the hull is part of a design scheme and in my Dreadnought helps provide an easier motion. This is not so true of many lighter designs.
Doesn't pay much to get lost in the "numbers". Sailboats are living things and plenty of these two designs have made plenty of great passages. Let's not forget the sailor!

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

I'd sail either of them anywhere without worries. They will both outlast the humans aboard. Scotty got knocked down by a White Squall on his Ingrid and the boat was no worse for wear. The wind was strong enough to peel the paint off his wind generator. I believe he posted the story here on the forum a few years ago.
Martin and I sailed the same boat in seas I'd not want to be in again for a long time.
kind regards,

Yes...I owned this Ingrid where with seas big and wind well above 35 kt that the boom ripped out of the mast while dropping off a wave. Righting moment and stability was not on the forefront of my mind while the fire drill was going on.
Put away your calculator and the number games and buy the boat you fall for. Forget all these silly discussions.