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Old 24-04-2011, 12:46   #61
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Re: Westsail 28 Vs Baba 30

Touche
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Old 24-04-2011, 17:18   #62
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Re: Westsail 28 Vs Baba 30

"Hopping on someone's W32 for a five day trip and having a "bad" feeling isn't surprising. I've never experienced a bad, uncomfortable motion from our W32. I tend to view claims such as "it's a slow boat" and "it hobby horses" and "it rolls too much", etc, as being caused by the sailor, not the boat."

I'm with Blah on the quote above. There's that old saw about Buddy Melges who showed up at a local club on race night and said " give me the worst boat in the whole fleet" then proceeded to kick everybodies butt.

Never noticed a tandency to hobby horse with Molly B. This is most likely because the original owner did a great job of distributing about 300# of lead pigs as well as the placement of tankage and we have kept the weight out of the ends.

So far though we have much to learn yet following seas have been managed best by taking them just on the quarter... biggest concern here of course is the attention at the helm. The Dreadnoughts are blessed with a large rudder which makes them easier to helm in these circumstances.

Next we start playing with the cutter set up and sail combos to see, in spite of the design challenges if we can improve close hauled performance a bit more. As yet she doesn't show excessive weather helm but maybe we can squeeze out another knot.

Anyway, the point being, as has been said here before, it's all about trade-offs and learning the boat. We have a great relationship with our fat grrrl. We knew the score on our first date and have enjoyed getting to know her better.
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Old 25-04-2011, 07:12   #63
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Re: Westsail 28 Vs Baba 30

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Yep. One needs x times the energy to move a boat that is y times heavier.

But this is only one aspect of displacement. There are also other aspects - for example when two boats have the same displacement. They can still vary dramatically in comfort.

b.
Agreed. And, overall, full-keeled boats tend to be heavier displacement, meaning that in general, those boats have a better motion.

As I have often pointed out: you don't even need to leave the dock to see this illustrated. Walk around a marina on a windy and/or choppy day and it's not hard to tell which boats would be comfortable and which would make you loose your cookies out in a seaway.
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Old 25-04-2011, 09:26   #64
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Re: Westsail 28 Vs Baba 30

Over the years I have often looked at WS32 and thought I could be perfectly happy with that boat. I would never expect it to be a rocket but I would sail it sympthetically to it's nature and I could enjoy it.

I can't imagine a WS32 having a bad motion. That basic parent shape was designed to have good motion. That's what Colin Archer was all about. Of course if you fill the ends with the weight the WS will hobby horse as will some of my own full keel, double enders.

I read some posters here talking about terrible motion and I think, in comparison to how many other boats. Three? Five? Two? Most of the time I just call BS ( quietly to myself so I don't get censored again). After all, sailing five different boats hardly makes one an expert in sailboat motion at sea.

Over the years the WS32 has been probably the most over rated and at the same time under rated boat of all time. Somewhere in between those extremes is a darn capable boat with a fine tradition behind it that only increases it's appeal. To me.
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Old 25-04-2011, 09:31   #65
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Re: Westsail 28 Vs Baba 30

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Originally Posted by sneuman View Post

(...) overall, full-keeled boats tend to be heavier displacement, meaning that in general, those boats have a better motion.
(...)
Overall, IMHO, full keel hulls tend to have more displacement as compared with many other same LWL hulls. However, the same full keel hulls will oftentimes show less initial stability. So, again IMHO, there will be MORE roll movement (while there may be less acceleration).

To each their own - I, for one, hate the classic long keel tub movement - the boat rolling downwind like hell. And I have sailed more than 40k Nm downwind by now. HELL. Avoid long, full keel, classic hulls for definitively downwind work. E.g. the s.c. coconut milk run. Get a Pogo.

Then again, upwind, my boat goes like a dream - smooth and with only small amount of slow down with each wave - no overhangs, narrow entry, deep fore-body ... and she point OK. Quite contrary to what many sailors imagine the classic hull to be. But my classic hull is not like a W28/32, nor like a Baba - we are much more like a S&S minus the overhangs.

I think each boat has some pros & cons and it is good to have a boat for THE job. Flat, stiff, huge main area for a run in the tradewinds, long, narrow, deep with easily manageable sail-plan for mid latitudes upwind work. And if she is no god for none of the above, then let's hope she is a great live-aboard.

Boats, ay. This world would be a boring place without them, and I would have to sleep on land ... ;-)

Cheers,
b.
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