Went to the Boatshow Today...

[pcmm]

Its Toronto Boat show time again, so I and the wife trotted down yesterday to have a look at the sailboats. we went on the Bene's Jeanneaus and 1 delphia 40.3. I was absolutely shocked to discover that all of the boats ( except for the Delphia were basically designed to be unusable anywhere except for securly tied to the dock! Sharp corneres on every cabinet, no gaurd rails for the stove, NO INTERIOR HANDGRABS! except for in places were you wouldnt need them! the Beneteaus even had glossy cabin soles and companionway ladders! One of the beneteaus didnt even have a chart table or switch panel that was easily accessible. I dont get it. what are these designers thinking???

the Delphia at least has more of these details right! and apparently has fully tabbed bulkheads (including tabbing to the deck!)

[JPA Cate]

pcmm,

Actually, this is very good news for you. It will save you money, although it may set you up for a little more work. Buy a used mono that meets your construction and seaworthiness requirements, and enjoy!

IMO, the lack of access to the areas the glued-in-liner boats hide is a real concern.

Lasy year a CF member had the rudder attachment fail, and had the courage to photograph it flailing around, right before they abandoned ship.

I think you have plenty of reason to be wary of some of the new boats. I am told they are designed to appeal to women who are not sailors.

If you want a boat that's both new and meets your criteria for seaworthiness, I think you're going to have to go look at the construction of your candidates very carefully.

Ann

[robert sailor]

To me it simply shows the builders are appealing to their market base and believe me they know who their buyers are. We tend to talk about many of these boats doing offshore passages and a few do for sure but the lions share of these boats sit at docks all over the world playing the role of a summer cabin. The builders know this and put money in places they think the buyers will appreciate the most.

[pcmm]

I could never afford to drop $350k on a new boat anyway! i prefer the classics long keels that are easy to bump the bottom with! and reall interiors that are glassed to the hull! I dont like pan liners at all. Ironiccally that puts the Morgan Out Islands high on my list!

[robert sailor]

Well not interested in getting into a debate on OI and Bennies but if you love the Morgans then you have the world by the bum because there are lots to choose from. Enjoy!

[JPA Cate]

You might find this thread interesting: Another Bene with broken rudder bits

[pcmm]

Robert Sailor, I'm not even referring to offshore passages. even on a daysail. I'd hate to have to try to go below on the new Beneteaus. they have slippery glossy companionway steps and cabins soles. try walking uphill to the head when the boat is on a starboard tack! you'll never get there! If you have to grind on the mainsheet (solo), getting from the helm to the mainsheet winch involves 3 changes in the height of the cockpit sole with 3 small ridges at each change!

[Pegu Club]

Going on our third year with our 1975 B-24, we read a lot of sailing info, mags, online info etc, I don't here/read of much of this sort of thing happening to the "old school" sailboats, what's up with the construction methods that this seemingly happens so frequently with these newer era boats? We are looking to purchase a 36 ft ish boat about seven years out and we so far are having zero interest in purchasing any of these mass production boats, frankly they supply no sense of durability or safety to us.

[MARC D]

pcmm,

Well, your comment remind me of my own experience shopping for a boat back in 2008...
And I also found out that for the same money (of a mass production) I could buy a slightly used, high quality boat really built for voyaging.

Good luck with your search!

Marc

[Moody46CC]

Everything on a boat is a compromise. From attending many boat shows, I have seen the evolution to larger and larger interiors with more and more and especially the creature comforts of home. In particular, I have admired Hunter. They know how to market a boat. Now, before things escalate, I'm not a Hunter basher. Au contraire. But most boats sit at the dock or anchor/mooring 90% of the time or greater, and Hunter has great interiors. That is what sells. As do smooth and glossly soles, etc. And the major production manufacturers have caught on.

Boat manufacturers have a competitive environment. They do market studies to determine what sells. IF they don't sell boats, they don't survive. Najad had a great boat--Ms. Jeanne Socrates took one alone on a circumnavigation almost twice. A great boat. But they went bankrupt a couple of times. Hylas has a good reputation as a high end boat--but look at photos of the soles in their models. We're talking some serious reflection here. My boat, a Moody, is a sailor, but the company went under. Could not sell enough. Wood everywhere in the interior; teak decks, etc. Both marques (Najad and Moody) were similar in design, construction and materials. But not enough customers.

So, we can deplore shiny soles, sharp surfaces, no handholds, and the like, but the manufacturers are simply responding to their research which says people want boats that have the shape of clothes irons with sharp surfaces (inside and outside).

No one has to buy these; one can buy an older boat as someone noted. But I cannot fault the manufacturers for trying to meet demand to stay in business.

[robert sailor]

The world has changed and in many ways for the better. Sailboats have gotten cheaper and the construction has been automated and changed to such an extent that a builder like Moody or Najad would not even recognize what was going on in a factory like Bavaria. Some love and embrace the change and others like the more traditional building ways that produced heavier and stouter boats. If you like the newer ones then great, if you prefer the handbuilt ones thats fine to but it is looking more and more like this type of construction is going the way of the dodo bird. The higher end builders are either out of business or heading that direction and soon there will no longer be any choice other than an older used traditional boat or a new factory job.

[JPA Cate]

What about the aluminium French boats? Are they not an option, too? for someone who wants a voyaging boat that will work in a seaway.....

[robert sailor]

[QUOTE=Ann T. Cate;1722489]What about the aluminium French boats? Are they not an option, too? for someone who wants a voyaging boat that will work in a seaway.....

Yes the aluminium boats are an excellent option

[FamilyVan]

I was at the Toronto boat show on Saturday- maybe I saw you there!
I too was really disappointed with the selection of boats on display. Sometimes I think I secretly want a nice new production boat because I can't afford one. But this years boat show reminded me that I didn't.
The 2015 Oceanis 35 really surprised me, because not only was it not a terribly sea-friendly design- but it was kind of cramped inside, no where near the interior space of my 1979 35'- I thought that's what these boats were all about.
On the plus ALL of these boats looked much faster and had much nicer cockpits then my oldy.
I went to the boatshow with a shopping list that went unfilled too. I've been trying to upgrade the heat on my boat for months but just can't find anything. Genco had some good sales on Dickinson heaters, but aside from that I didn't see anything. I went home empty handed.
Another observation- there was no yanmar booth! Good for Beta and Volvo I guess, but really?

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Julie Mor]

The entire trend in sailboats has been to make them as desirable as power boats. To do that they need big interiors and entertainment areas. I hear people at boat shows rave about cats and say monos are too cramped. Sellers focus on push button technology and creature comforts like fully loaded "kitchens". It's what buyers want today.

In years to come, this kind of sailboat will have been fully tested. It will be interesting to see how that pans out.