Went to the Boatshow Today...

[RKsailsolo]

Originally Posted by jbpatents

Oh, and by the way, grab rails? Get some at West Marine and install them wherever you like. I will not rule out a boat because lack of of misplaced grab rails.

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Amen bro.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, jbpatents.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by jbpatents

Oh, and by the way, grab rails? Get some at West Marine and install them wherever you like. I will not rule out a boat because lack of of misplaced grab rails.

You don't need that. When you buy a new boat and if you consider that the handholds are not enough a good dealer will do that for you. All its needed is a teak or metal bar, that you can find on the market and sometimes a local reinforcement. On most modern boats it will not even show up since it will be covered by the ceiling panels that serve as isolation and decoration. The price, if not offered, will be ridiculously low compared wit the price of a new boat.

Never understood the big story some make about boats don't having the number of handholds they would like to have as if that was important or determinant in what regards the choice of a boat for offshore use, as if they were not easy to mount, if needed.

Some of the best modern bluewater boats don't have them in a number that looks adequate to me, for Instance Oysters, but I would sail the boat first to see if they really are necessary and if so where to put them. Even on a used boat not a big deal in what regards to mount them if someone founds them needed.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by jbpatents

Just finished reading through the 15 pages of this thread with much interest. I'm not a cruiser yet, but I'm working towards it by sailing, taking classes, reading and visiting boat shows. I've been sailing for about two years, mostly on Oceanis 34 and 38. Last April I was at the strictly sail Pacific. My impression (admittedly as a novice) was as follows. Going on the Catalinas and Hunters felt like entering a Toyota Corolla or Honda Accord. Seems like a solid no frills ride. Going into the Bene and Jeaneau felt like the Lexus and Infinity. Much more luxurious and easier to justify the price to the wife. Then I entered the Bavaria Vision and thought I just entered a Mercedes. Seems luxurious with quality craftsmanship all around. Until I learn differently, the Vision is my target boat.

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Nothing wrong with a Bavaria but its a very long way from the Mercedes of sailboats. All the boats you listed are the Honda Accords or lesser equivalents for car comparisons. You just haven't been on a higher end boat so don't take my critique personally. Oysters and some of the Swedish built boats are at the top of heap followed by several brands from a variety of builders and the list you posted is the bottom of the heap or the most affordable ones. Enjoy your sailing!

[Julie Mor]

Originally Posted by Polux

Some of the best modern bluewater boats don't have them in a number that looks adequate to me, for Instance Oysters, but I would sail the boat first to see if they really are necessary and if so where to put them. Even on a used boat not a big deal in what regards to mount them if someone founds them needed.

If you're looking for a grab-bar type handhold, yes, many of the best builders don't have them but instead build them into the cabinetry.


The railing you see on top of the cabinet is a handhold.


All through this galley you see the same feature, built into the cabinetry. This is common on Oysters.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Julie Mor

If you're looking for a grab-bar type handhold, yes, many of the best builders don't have them but instead build them into the cabinetry.
...
All through this galley you see the same feature, built into the cabinetry. This is common on Oysters.

Yes but you are looking to old Oysters. Have a look at the new ones instead:

[Julie Mor]

Don't know which one that is that you posted, Polux, but here's a pic from the new 475:

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Julie Mor

Don't know which one that is that you posted, Polux, but here's a pic from the new 475:

The 475 is a 46 MKII, an older boat in its conception. The ones I posted are the recent 625 and 825.

[Julie Mor]

Originally Posted by Polux

The 475 is a 46 MKII, an older boat in its conception. The ones I posted are the recent 625 and 825.

Maybe the big ones are mostly used as dock queens.

[CS Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Julie Mor

If you're looking for a grab-bar type handhold, yes, many of the best builders don't have them but instead build them into the cabinetry.


The railing you see on top of the cabinet is a handhold.


All through this galley you see the same feature, built into the cabinetry. This is common on Oysters.

My old CS 36T has this same style throughout

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Julie Mor

Maybe the big ones are mostly used as dock queens.

The Oyster 825 come out last year and I believe that very few were made 2 or 3 I think. Two of them made the last ARC and are now cruising on the Caribbean. They were also very fast and between the first boats to complete the crossing. I saw another one on the Dusseldorf boat show (beautiful hull). Dock queens? I don't think so

[jbpatents]

I'm with you Robert. Let's say the Vision is the Mercedes CLA vs the Bene being the Toyota Corolla. I don't intend to spend more than the price of a Vision 42, so I'm going to have my S - class only on land.

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[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Nothing wrong with a Bavaria but its a very long way from the Mercedes of sailboats. All the boats you listed are the Honda Accords or lesser equivalents for car comparisons. You just haven't been on a higher end boat so don't take my critique personally. Oysters and some of the Swedish built boats are at the top of heap followed by several brands from a variety of builders and the list you posted is the bottom of the heap or the most affordable ones. Enjoy your sailing!

What determines how you rate " top" and " bottom" of the heap. You seem to confuse price with ability. A Bavaria can be a Mercedes , while a HR. Might be more like a AMG or semi customs car for example

Dave


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[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Idylles15.5

Read the first few pages to see what this is all about. The Land Rover to modern suv nailed it. That plus once my buddy pulled up on his monster Fountaine Pajot, 50+ maybe 60 even (I don't know the sizes they build) it was over as far as the ladies were concerned. I have a pretty sweet ride, but my comfy cockpit was persona non grada once they stepped on his cat. "omg look at all the room it's so nice" so of course the party moved to his monster deck. I hate him lol. Next words out of my girlfriends mouth, " why don't you buy one of those" UGHH. Anyway I agree the creature comforts are nice, and yeah most people just go bopping around and don't hit the Ocean, but when the weather comes up and your caught in it and have to move, thats when I worry about these comfy builds. The monos are definitely getting wider with bigger cockpits to compete with the cats, but I think they are definitely cheaping out on the construction. I'm the shipwright at our Marina so I know. The glass is a lot thinner. Was at the Miami boat show last year, walked down to look at the new sailboats, and bump into my friend from high school on the new Beneteau 50. I haven't seen him since 1985. He's the largest Beneteau Dealer on the West coast, I think San Diego. Had to laugh lol. Anyway I waited until all potential customers were off the boat and proceeded to tell him what a piece of crap it was. Not one piece of real wood on the whole interior. Cabinets like someone else mentioned on a post here, look likethey belong in a house. Cabin sole looked like a pergo floor from home depot. I remember saying to him " thank God I have an older Bene before the French government got a hold of them and Jeanneau. He looked me straight in the eye and said all our research says this is our price point in the market and this is what they want. So this is the future. It looked like such a piece of junk after I climbed on the Morris. A real masterpiece. Well to each his own, but sometimes we can't pick or choose what we get stuck in out there and if the **** hits the fan weather wise, I would still rather be in my old heavy German Frers design.

Actually your right for the wrong reasons. The land rover analogy is apt in that it shows actually how crappy it was. Yes if you only goal is to cross a muddy field or go, up a steep hill it's was great. At everything else it was actually crap. For the 80 20 rule LR quickly realised that most people wanted a good all rounder with a stylish interior that handled well in the roads and provided them with some additional security should they want the 20 %.

Modern boats are far better attuned to the vast majority of their buyers needs, yet they are capable of the 20% if called upon even of they are not optimised to do only that.

Dave


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[Julie Mor]

I ran across this on the Internet Boat Show today. It's a 2015 Moody 45AC Classic.





And all this for $267,895...