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Old 13-01-2015, 06:17   #46
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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FamilyVan,

That's just the problem your companionway ladder is just that a LADDER not stairs. they're designed to be used like a ladder that why the hand holds are where they are. on the newer boats (at least the ones I saw at the show) there is nothing to hang on to on the way down and the companionway "steps" are still steeper than stairs but not quite a ladder. and the Hunters with that weird landing 2 steps from the bottom always makes me almost trip as you're never expecting it, its just not part of the natural flow down the companionway.

all this talk of bluewater. I never mentioned blue water, just take some of these new boats out on a regular daysail and you'll see the issues with lack of hand holds, slippery floors, cabinet doors with hard corners, etc. it only takes a foot or 2 of wave to make the boat move. and as someone who's fallen into one of these cabinet doors...it hurts alot more than a regular cabinet door with rounded corners. they're like that for a reason, not just for looks...

Of course maybe if they adjusted these minor details to make the boats more usable when they're out on the water, the boats would spend less time shuttling from dock to dock???
You're absolutely correct, I know you didn't mention Blue water designs
, I was just comparing one design to the opposite to illustrate their are advantages to short companionways.

I kind of like the landing on Hunters. You can use the landing to pass your case of beer of baby or whatever you happen to be carrying directly to the cockpit with out having to balance on a stair.

Agreed, wide open spaces and no handholds doesn't even make for a good sailing lay out in light winds. I have heavy D-Rings bolted on through out my galley so you can actually harness yourself in while preparing meals. I believe this was an original fitting from the factory. Neat feature- I've never used it though. Although I have used them as anchor points to lash my Christmas tree in place
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Old 13-01-2015, 06:35   #47
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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It's also how most people actually use their boats, if they use them at all. How many people make a big point of pursuing a "bluewater" boat (now a marketing term), and use it as a coastal cruiser, or, even more likely, moor it in one place while they bash newer production boats that might more efficiently (less money, less maintenance) serve their actual need?
Actually, people do seem to buy the boats that best suit their needs. What we've witnessed during the day at anchorages. The anchorages fill up with boats of all sorts, but late in the afternoon, the day sailors and coastal cruisers mostly head back into port to their berths to tie up, leaving us and just a few other self contained boats at the anchorage. Some of the charter boats will also remain, mostly made up of Beneteaus, Jeaneaus, Bavaria etc., but usually only for a night. Most of the boats which are self contained having a water maker, generator, larger refrigeration system and larger tanks remain anchored out for weeks or months at a time, and only go into port when necessary.

When a boat owner's needs change, they buy a boat more suited to their needs. Never met anyone who bought an expensive, more self-contained boat to just sit at the dock.
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Old 13-01-2015, 08:06   #48
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

I'm sure when any of is going through a boat show we hear terms like "kitchen" and "bathroom" used and think, "These people are NOT sailors." This is not intended to be judgmental. But there are plenty of people who look at a sailboat as just one of the many options of how to get away for the weekend. The boats seen most often at boat shows are catering to their desires. It wouldn't surprise me if fewer than 1 in 10 have salt in their veins. The rest don't really even think about safety at sea because they would never get caught out there when the weather gets rough. So why buy a boat that is designed for that?

I think it's great there are people buying sailboats for any reason. It keeps the industry alive. Sailing takes work but the trend has been quick and easy solutions for everything. If only those of us who enjoy sailing in all its shapes and forms bought boats, I'm afraid there wouldn't be many companies making sailboats.
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Old 13-01-2015, 09:52   #49
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

My Tayana V42 is a solid serious bluewater capable boat. I mostly cruise along the coast of California out for a week or months at a time. I sometimes look with envy at boats with wide sterns, swim platforms, more heads, more cabins. But I have great confidence in the strength and integrity of my boat. Everything, every component is high quality and over built from rigging to anchoring to tankage. She is as comfortable in rough conditions as I could ask. And as a plus the teak wood work below is as beautiful and any home. You don't find these attributes in a boat built for the charter trade, at the lowest possible price, that is only expected to stay in charter for 5 years.


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Old 13-01-2015, 10:29   #50
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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She is as comfortable in rough conditions as I could ask.
And maybe that's the criteria many here consider when choosing which boat to buy. When you've sailed in rough seas, you don't forget it.
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Old 13-01-2015, 11:17   #51
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

I don't think that this is just an issue of 'taste', or as TanzerTom put it, of people being upset that manufacturers build a boat that does not appeal to them, but which is 'absolutely fabulous to others.' Things like proper fiddles on tables and adequate handholds can be included without in any way detracting from the appearance, or aesthetics of the interior design. So too can proper companionway ladders, rounded corners on cabinets/doors, etc., etc. However, while these 'features' do not detract from the appearance of the interior, they clearly do add to its safety and practicality.

Whether or not the owner intends to use a boat for generally short passages, these are still boats and safety is important both underway and while at anchor. The same is true of automobiles, of course, whether or not they are intended to be used for long-distance travel, or merely short jaunts to the mall. Does anyone really think that crush zones, padded dash boards, seat belts and air bags, etc. have adversely effected the ability of the designer or manufacturer to produce an attractive vehicle, or one that will appeal to the mass market for new automobiles?

Yes, fiddles, handholds, proper companionway ladders and rounded corners will likely add a relatively small amount to the cost of the manufacture of a boat - although on a proportionate basis, probably much less than the mandated safety equipment on an economy car. Regardless, just as automobile manufactureres (and consumers) had to be forced into specifying and ordering certain minimum safety standards in automobiles, it would appear that the same is true of various boat manufacturers and consumers.

Brad
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Old 13-01-2015, 11:36   #52
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Re: went to the boatshow today...

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Its my opinion 70% buy a boat as a status thing.. kinda seaside cottage..
Spent some time in Brixham and other marina's along the S coast of the UK.. every w/end in the summer it was a hive of activity.. kids and dogs running up and down screaming.. folk trudging back and forth with shopping bags, tools and bits and pieces..
But... out of 500 odd boats only maybe 20 ever go out.. lots of entertainment tho'.. folk raving till the early hours.
The productions now geared more for the player rather than the sailor...
Ahh you mean like vehicles..

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Old 13-01-2015, 11:39   #53
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Re: went to the boatshow today...

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if you have the $s, you should look at the Outbound 46. It is specifically designed with blue water capability with all the modern amenities. We spent last summer cruising the Pacific NW and look forward to next summer in Alaska before heading to Panama.
You mean a lot of money

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Old 13-01-2015, 11:49   #54
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

we have been to all the big boat shows in fl as we look for our boat and went on most of the boats for comparison. I found plenty of hand hold granted as fat as these boats are getting you really have too be in the middle or on the sides but if you were in a sea state that's just about the only two places I think I'd want to be if I was down below. All the boats I went on at a pole down one side or both sides of the ladders I think that's what you hold on to and you have to turn around we backed down most of them which is what we do on our current boat. I guess if you want a monkey bar across the boat I guess you would have to add more handrails. I think a lot of people on this forum think or believe they're going to be sailing in storms every passage and that's just not the case

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Old 13-01-2015, 13:29   #55
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

Quote:
Things like proper fiddles on tables and adequate handholds can be included without in any way detracting from the appearance, or aesthetics of the interior design. So too can proper companionway ladders, rounded corners on cabinets/doors, etc., etc. However, while these 'features' do not detract from the appearance of the interior, they clearly do add to its safety and practicality.
When some newer Catalinas came out 10 years ago, the first thing we noted on a review of hull #3 was NO f**king handholds.

Hull #4 and later had them.

Next gen boats? Same damn thing.

What is it with these designers? For some, they should know better, for others, it seems to be beyond them.

A good handhold can save you from a sharp corner...
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Old 13-01-2015, 14:07   #56
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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Actually, people do seem to buy the boats that best suit their needs...

What we've witnessed during the day at anchorages. Never met anyone who bought an expensive, more self-contained boat to just sit at the dock.
It's not people's intent that I was commenting on, but what they actually do.

Nobody buys a boat to sit at the dock, but many boats do just that.

Some people frequently bash production boats, but while they seem to miss badly on items like handholds, they are capable of supporting most of what cruisers do.

Boat manufacturers know what actually drives consumers. Nice, roomy interiors and brand names. While that might not satisfy our inner circumnavigators, it's what the majority of the people who are spending on a new boat are actually willing to pay for. Who is buying these boats, for the most part? Couples. You've got to meet both of their needs.
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Old 13-01-2015, 14:34   #57
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

There was a J-Boat there as well as a first. I didn't go on board because I'm not really a racer. Did anybody notice if they had hand holds etc. Below deck?

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Old 13-01-2015, 15:33   #58
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

My new Catalina has handholds, no sharp corners, lower freeboard, narrower beam......a delight to sail . Oh...and a beer reefer!!!


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Old 13-01-2015, 16:37   #59
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

Speaking of Catalina, these articles provide some insight into how they see the world.

Catalina 355 Boat Review | Cruising World

and this one:

http://www.cruisingworld.com/sailboa...-return-reason
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Old 13-01-2015, 16:57   #60
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

Fourty some years ago, when we bought our first boat that didn't fit on the roof of the car, we didn't know what we needed or wanted. We bought a boat that seemed roomy and spacious (for 24 footer) at the dock at the Annapolis boat show. We lived and learned. Surely many other buyers make similar decisions. One can only hope they can live and learn.


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