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Old 12-01-2015, 10:35   #31
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

I guess I didn't miss anything by choosing not to go. And I like the comparison to the SUVs. But I hope that no one gets hurt in them when the keel does fall off or someone slips on the companionway steps.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:50   #32
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

a year ago I went to the Dusseldorf Boat Show and ended up buying a Southerly 42RST. Upto now, I have been sailing Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 42 DS.
I didn't actually intend to buy a new boat, as my old one was just 7 years old.

But when I saw the Southerly, I realized that this is a completely different league as far as quality, seaworthyness and performance is concerned and it has the advantage of a lift keel. However, these things come with a price that is about 3 times as high as the one of the Jeanneaus. Southerly is a good example of a builder that produces excellent boats with mostly manual work. Even at the high price, they do not cover their cost and before my boat was finished, they went into liquidation. So I had to hire the 4 man crew to finish the boat under the supervision of a marine surveyor. As extensive tests showed, the result is excellent, but the extra cost on top of the already high price is huge.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:51   #33
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One trend that seems to be consistent in my marina is not so much the new boat versus the older boat, or design choices but rather the interest to get a "bigga boat" -- say that three times real fast to get the feel of the desire.


Of course it is logical for boat companies to market and sell that which makes them money.
If one believes that a large majority of boats are in slips and seldom venture out in sea worthy conditions of all variations then it seems logical that an owner of a new boat may be satisfied with it's design: perhaps large cabin, wide stern, two or three swim platforms. What does it matter how a person decides to spend their money?

I enjoy more variety of boat types and the variety of people who own them: different yet the same at the core.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:52   #34
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

The show is coming to Chicago this week. They have 5 days of seminars scheduled. all free. We're planning on making many of them. Looking is nice. Learning much better.
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:03   #35
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
I crawled around on a new Benn/Jeann/Hunt a few years ago at the TO boat show. It had big main cabin, two heads, full showers, two large cabins-berths, and a large cockpit. But it had no hand-holds down below, a galley that looked like it would be dangerous underway, small tankage, very little storage and a useless anchoring system. It even had a full washer/dryer that ran on AC.

The sales person was pleasant and helpful, but when I started asking about the suitability of the boat going anywhere off the beaten path, he just shook his head. He said virtually all new boats were designed for short trips only. They were not meant to leave the dock for long periods.

I assume these companies know their markets. It's what most people want. Nothing wrong with that.
It's also how most people actually use their boats, if they use them at all. How many people make a big point of pursuing a "bluewater" boat (now a marketing term), and use it as a coastal cruiser, or, even more likely, moor it in one place while they bash newer production boats that might more efficiently (less money, less maintenance) serve their actual need?
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:23   #36
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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Originally Posted by seagypsywoman View Post
I guess I didn't miss anything by choosing not to go. And I like the comparison to the SUVs. But I hope that no one gets hurt in them when the keel does fall off or someone slips on the companionway steps.
As far as falling down stairs goes (I know this was just used as a casual example- but I'll respond any way);
95% of the time the companion ways on these production boats are much safer than that on my decidedly blue water design.
On my boat, you head below from my uncomfortably small cockpit, contort your way through my very small (and very seaworthy) hatch, turn around so you're bum first and descend 6 feet down a near vertical ladder/stairway. My poor old dad has already fallen down it once, and visitors to the boat just have no idea how to handle it.
Forget about getting a dog down it. My wife really struggles to get the baby in the car seat down it.
I do frequently sail in bad conditions, I don't tend to worry about the weather forecast unless the seas are overtopping the break wall. In cold conditions (the best sailing in the great lakes) I take great comfort in the distance between the nearest water and my hatch.
But... even given the seaworthyness provided- most of the time I hate my "Blue water" companionway. I'm not planning on a new boat any time soon, but my next boat- will certainly have a less sea worthy but more user friendly hatch as found in popular production boats.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:30   #37
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

My companionway steps are not that slippery, but about $20 bucks with Amazon got we the clear rough 1" wide tape meant to be put in bathtubs. I figure if it will keep from slipping in a bathtub it should work and as it's clear, you don't really notice it.
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:35   #38
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Re: went to the boatshow today...

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What about really silly positive posts???
Silly, or obviously joking is fine, not cruel jokes though.
To use a Southern term of endearment, My Mamma always told me if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything.
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:46   #39
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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My companionway steps are not that slippery, but about $20 bucks with Amazon got we the clear rough 1" wide tape meant to be put in bathtubs. I figure if it will keep from slipping in a bathtub it should work and as it's clear, you don't really notice it.
Amazing how a simple fix can overcome a catastrophic structural flaw in a production boat.

Good job!
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:53   #40
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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It's also how most people actually use their boats, if they use them at all. How many people make a big point of pursuing a "bluewater" boat (now a marketing term), and use it as a coastal cruiser, or, even more likely, moor it in one place while they bash newer production boats that might more efficiently (less money, less maintenance) serve their actual need?
I agree; people should get a boat that suites their needs. What was surprising to me (but no longer is) was the fact that most of these newer production boats are designed to mostly go from dock to dock, or at most to be out for no more than a week or two at a time. But of course, this IS the reality for most people who own sailboats. The market is simply responding to the reality.

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On my boat, you head below from my uncomfortably small cockpit, contort your way through my very small (and very seaworthy) hatch, turn around so you're bum first and descend 6 feet down a near vertical ladder/stairway. My poor old dad has already fallen down it once, and visitors to the boat just have no idea how to handle it.
This sounds like my companion way .
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:55   #41
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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As far as falling down stairs goes (I know this was just used as a casual example- but I'll respond any way);
95% of the time the companion ways on these production boats are much safer than that on my decidedly blue water design.
On my boat, you head below from my uncomfortably small cockpit, contort your way through my very small (and very seaworthy) hatch, turn around so you're bum first and descend 6 feet down a near vertical ladder/stairway.
FamilyVan,

That's just the problem your companionway ladder is just that a LADDER not stairs. they're designed to be used like a ladder that why the hand holds are where they are. on the newer boats (at least the ones I saw at the show) there is nothing to hang on to on the way down and the companionway "steps" are still steeper than stairs but not quite a ladder. and the Hunters with that weird landing 2 steps from the bottom always makes me almost trip as you're never expecting it, its just not part of the natural flow down the companionway.

all this talk of bluewater. I never mentioned blue water, just take some of these new boats out on a regular daysail and you'll see the issues with lack of hand holds, slippery floors, cabinet doors with hard corners, etc. it only takes a foot or 2 of wave to make the boat move. and as someone who's fallen into one of these cabinet doors...it hurts alot more than a regular cabinet door with rounded corners. they're like that for a reason, not just for looks...

Of course maybe if they adjusted these minor details to make the boats more usable when they're out on the water, the boats would spend less time shuttling from dock to dock???
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Old 12-01-2015, 20:23   #42
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Smile Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

Two short comments.
Yes the high volume production boats go for a slice of the market that wants a floating condo. Big room, lots of creature comforts, but a boat with minimal equipment everywhere. Small, light gauge everything. Some folks will buy that stuff, and they never really get into real sailing. The high volume boats are In a race to the bottom... And they are winning. Just look at The prices of these boats after 2 to 3 years in charter. That tells you what value buyers put in These boats.

On any list of boats for sale, compare the zillions of high production boats on the market versus the limited number of quality boats like Morgans or island packets or tartans. These boats are built for tough sailing. Most of the time we (people who love sailing) are in nice to challenging conditions, but when we face a sudden blast of 40 knt winds my wife and I (with grand kids on board) love to have a tartan 3700 CCR under our feet.
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Old 12-01-2015, 20:53   #43
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Re: went to the boatshow today...

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Personally, I think having to compete with the Cats...
...and cottages ... (I'm mostly kidding!)
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Old 12-01-2015, 21:35   #44
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Re: went to the boatshow today...

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The sales person was pleasant and helpful, but when I started asking about the suitability of the boat going anywhere off the beaten path, he just shook his head. He said virtually all new boats were designed for short trips only. They were not meant to leave the dock for long periods.
That being what the salesman said, everything's all right. These boats are good coastal cruisers. From what posters have said in here (ie. they have the attributes of charter boats) , there'd be something wrong if he had said these boats were meant to go on the ocean.

Maybe manufacturers consider that experienced sailors who are looking for ocean going sailboats do not do their shopping at boat shows. Maybe when they exhibit their boats they get endless comments about their boats being too closed in, the galley's too small, there are too many silly handholds sticking out, the windows are too small and so on.

Note carefully, that all boats are Good Things. As the experienced cruisers in here understand full well, one sailboat is very different from another, to a surprising degree. A good coastal cruiser is not a good ocean going sailboat or, rather, there are much better sailboats for going on the ocean. A good party boat does not a good racer make. And ALL of these boats are Good Boats. The sin is in buying a sailboat, and then using it in a way where it doesn't fit.
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Old 13-01-2015, 05:26   #45
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Re: went to the boatshow today...

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That being what the salesman said, everything's all right. These boats are good coastal cruisers. From what posters have said in here (ie. they have the attributes of charter boats) , there'd be something wrong if he had said these boats were meant to go on the ocean.
As I say Seymore, it's not the question of being blue-water capable or not. What surprised me was that these boats appear to be be designed mostly for dock use. I'm not talking about crossing the ocean blue, I'm talking about just being able to get off the beaten path for a more than a week or two.

I'm not slamming these boats. I assume the builders know their market, and are targeting their boats accurately. It just says something about how most people use their sailboats.
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