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**a64pilot** · 12-01-2015, 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert sailor

To me it simply shows the builders are appealing to their market base and believe me they know who their buyers are. We tend to talk about many of these boats doing offshore passages and a few do for sure but the lions share of these boats sit at docks all over the world playing the role of a summer cabin. The builders know this and put money in places they think the buyers will appreciate the most.

It's this more than anything, Remember the customer is always right, the boat builder has to build what sells, or they go out of business.
What it tells me more than anything is that most new boat buyers are not voyaging and even sailing that much.

I almost bought a newer Hunter myself, reason is I was trying to get the wife on board with this Cruising idea of mine, and she liked the Hunters.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a floating beach house, just not what I want, but then I'm not in the market for a new boat either, they do know what they are doing, they are giving people what they want.

Personally, I think having to compete with the Cats has a lot to do with it as well.

Mike OReilly · 12-01-2015, 06:47

I crawled around on a new Benn/Jeann/Hunt a few years ago at the TO boat show. It had big main cabin, two heads, full showers, two large cabins-berths, and a large cockpit. But it had no hand-holds down below, a galley that looked like it would be dangerous underway, small tankage, very little storage and a useless anchoring system. It even had a full washer/dryer that ran on AC.

The sales person was pleasant and helpful, but when I started asking about the suitability of the boat going anywhere off the beaten path, he just shook his head. He said virtually all new boats were designed for short trips only. They were not meant to leave the dock for long periods.

I assume these companies know their markets. It's what most people want. Nothing wrong with that.

Garrettw · 12-01-2015, 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

He said virtually all new boats were designed for short trips only. They were not meant to leave the dock for long periods.

I know man, so true. In fact there was one recently that was offshore and its keel just fell off! What a POS. I think the boat's name was CHEEKY BENETAU or something like that.

FamilyVan · 12-01-2015, 06:59

Washer dryer? Now I'm drueling. I'd be willing to forgo hand holds for a washer and dryer- I suspect misses family van would be willing to forgo a keel for a washer dryer

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Randyonr3 · 12-01-2015, 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julie Mor

In years to come, this kind of sailboat will have been fully tested. It will be interesting to see how that pans out.

in the late 70s and early 80s there was a drastic change in boat disigns, and ways of building using fiberglass and fiberglass was only a few years new in boat building. But the newer designs were the big issues, the IOR standards were way out of the norm and fat bellied boat were on the market.
Now those boats are very sought after, I know as I own one.
And then the wide stern designs appeared and the the same prossed occured and again with the twin wheel, the canting keel, the "B&R" rig, Fin keels, and the list goes on..
New designs are always appearing on the market, and after passing the first arguments, fall into the mainstream and accepted and in years to come are sought after by the newer generation..
I would almost guess the person who designed a keel board to be moved under the boat instead of hanging off the starboard side had his ideas dissed as much as the new galleys and handholds in production boats.

ColdEH · 12-01-2015, 07:25

Lets face it folks , most of us will never see blue water . The production boat builders know this . Why build a boat on a production line for offshore use when it will more then likely never fulfill that role.

Water boats">Blue water boats are very expensive to build nowadays, If you don't believe me, head down to the Annapolis boat show and take a look at them . If you are truly looking for a new blue water boat you could look at a Tartan, maybe a Hylas , Outbounds are amazing . These boats are expensive , very expensive , and expensive to build and fit out . Not for everyone . Thats OK, not every one is looking to head offshore

Or get an older boat with a good pedigree and a strong hull. Then put lots of love into it and go sailing .

Regards

Southern Star · 12-01-2015, 07:26

The biggest market segment and consequently, the design brief for most series production catamarans and monohulls is the same - suitability for the bareboat charter industry. Consequently, most of their boats are designed/manufactured for day sails in relatively protected waters, in relatively benign conditions, with an emphasis on the number of berths/cabins receiving a priority over adequate storage and features for offshore sailing.

At the Toronto show this weekend I toured the Jeanneau 45 DS as my wife and I are chartering a Jeanneau of comparable size in St. Martin in February. The galley had marginal storage and shallow sinks that would be in appropriate for use in seaway - but on a bareboat charter for a week, who cares? The saloon table had no fiddles - impossible to use in a seaway but again, on a bareboat charter, we won't be using it while underway (although, here's to hoping that we don't end up anchored anywhere that is particularly rolly)! There was no proper wet locker - but then again, we are not even bringing our foul weather gear! The chart table/nav station had no space for an SSB/HF radio, no dedicated seat and one has to stand up to use it in its proper orientation - but again, for a bareboat, these are not issues.

Brad

**a64pilot** · 12-01-2015, 07:36

I keep going back to the automotive world as I know those better.
Maybe the best Honest to God real Africa safari go anywhere, fix it with bailing wire four wheel drive was the old Land Rover from the 60's and 70's.
But mainstream America Soccer Mom would have no use for that under powered, hot rough riding rattle trap, she wants leather, Bluetooth everything, an entertainment center and if she ever even drives over a curb in her SUV, it was by mistake. But it's got to be a 4 wheel drive, even down South where it never snows.

Boat is the same way, most new boat buyers don't want the boat that is the equivalent of the old Land Rover.

**boatman61** · 12-01-2015, 07:52

Its my opinion 70% buy a boat as a status thing.. kinda seaside cottage..
Spent some time in Brixham and other marina's along the S coast of the UK.. every w/end in the summer it was a hive of activity.. kids and dogs running up and down screaming.. folk trudging back and forth with shopping bags, tools and bits and pieces..
But... out of 500 odd boats only maybe 20 ever go out.. lots of entertainment tho'.. folk raving till the early hours.
The productions now geared more for the player rather than the sailor...

**David M** · 12-01-2015, 07:57

It does not make sense to buy a new boat, not when they depreciate like crazy the first five years. If maintained, a five year old boat is just as good as new and a heck of a lot less expensive.

lionspaw · 12-01-2015, 08:27

if you have the $s, you should look at the Outbound 46. It is specifically designed with blue water capability with all the modern amenities. We spent last summer cruising the Pacific NW and look forward to next summer in Alaska before heading to Panama.

TanzerTom · 12-01-2015, 08:35

I find it a little discouraging (in this forum anyway) that so many find it necessary to speak so negatively about what doesn't appeal to them but may be absolutely fabulous to others. Why does it matter that some manufactures build boats that meet the needs others rather than your own? Many on here advise newbies not to buy if the "Admiral" doesn't like the boat. Good advice, but contrary to the floating condo comments. The arguments against boats some don't like are like atheists getting all hot and bothered over something they don't believe exists... irrational. Similarly, applying the bashers' logic would lead them to complaining that no one else selected their own wife.

Go figure. I guess we all need something to do on cold winter days. Noted the largest number of post on this site coincided with one of the worst weather days of the season

**a64pilot** · 12-01-2015, 08:49

The really silly, negative posts?
I just ignore them, I used to let them bother me, but not anymore

mlucasparris · 12-01-2015, 08:50

I was at the Toronto Boat Show this weekend as well. I took part in a dockside safety briefing. Figured it couldn't hurt to learn what I can and repeat things I might already know. It was basically a repeat of the PCOC that I took a couple of weeks ago - passed with flying colors. Learned the Canadian Power and Sail Squadron is struggling with membership and getting younger people involved. The boat show is mostly a power boat event so little had anything to do with sailing which is what I'm mostly interested in. There weren't any sailboats I liked for the same reasons everyone else has already mentioned. When I move up from my 16' O'Day DaySailer I want that LandRover tough old boat that someone else mentioned. I don't need all that fancy furniture, I'd prefer not to deal with it. There is a WylieCat 30 (Cat Rigged not Catamaran) for sale on YachtWorld that is exactly what I'm looking for - very basic but with just the essentials that I like; enclosed head, basic galley, no extensive furniture, place to sleep. The boat doesn't have any through-hulls! Just the way I want it.

We picked up a PFD for the whole family. Found a Canadian manufacturer for PFDs (what a relief, not having to buy an offshore brand) My spouse and I both chose the Salus Regatta and we got the Salus Nimbus for our 8 y.o. boy. We were fitted by a sales person from Fogh Marine to ensure everyone had a comfortable and safe PFD. That was the best takeaway!

We also got information on the Trent-Severn Waterway and the Rideau Canal.

May not go back next year unless there is something I need, I'm just not into power boats.