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Old 22-01-2015, 16:41   #136
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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I would think that and I would be right. In my opinion. It has a post modern look that is popular in Europe now, but on trend does not make it a good interior, just an attractive interior to it's market, much as crocs were once attractive footwear to another market. . You state like it's fact that it's a good design, but you're just stating opinion as though it is fact. Not the same thing.
I tend to look at designs in a professional way. Yes it is a good design, that does not mean that it makes the taste of everyone. Taste or preferences has nothing to do with quality in design. A classic design can be good or bad a modern one can be good or bad.

Funny you talk like modern design was an European thing. It does not seem amazing to you that the boats that sell more on the US are the ones that feature that "European" design? It seems to me that on the US the ones that have money to buy new boats like what you call popular style in Europe, that off course has nothing to do with Europe: Modern style is Universal.
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Old 22-01-2015, 18:31   #137
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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44/46ft

But if that has importance the Solaris 44 is equally beautiful:










I think the Solaris is nicely designed but I don't think it is beautiful.
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Old 22-01-2015, 18:38   #138
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

Read the first few pages to see what this is all about. The Land Rover to modern suv nailed it. That plus once my buddy pulled up on his monster Fountaine Pajot, 50+ maybe 60 even (I don't know the sizes they build) it was over as far as the ladies were concerned. I have a pretty sweet ride, but my comfy cockpit was persona non grada once they stepped on his cat. "omg look at all the room it's so nice" so of course the party moved to his monster deck. I hate him lol. Next words out of my girlfriends mouth, " why don't you buy one of those" UGHH. Anyway I agree the creature comforts are nice, and yeah most people just go bopping around and don't hit the Ocean, but when the weather comes up and your caught in it and have to move, thats when I worry about these comfy builds. The monos are definitely getting wider with bigger cockpits to compete with the cats, but I think they are definitely cheaping out on the construction. I'm the shipwright at our Marina so I know. The glass is a lot thinner. Was at the boat show">Miami boat show last year, walked down to look at the new sailboats, and bump into my friend from high school on the new Beneteau 50. I haven't seen him since 1985. He's the largest Beneteau Dealer on the West coast, I think San Diego. Had to laugh lol. Anyway I waited until all potential customers were off the boat and proceeded to tell him what a piece of crap it was. Not one piece of real wood on the whole interior. Cabinets like someone else mentioned on a post here, look likethey belong in a house. Cabin sole looked like a pergo floor from home depot. I remember saying to him " thank God I have an older Bene before the French government got a hold of them and Jeanneau. He looked me straight in the eye and said all our research says this is our price point in the market and this is what they want. So this is the future. It looked like such a piece of junk after I climbed on the Morris. A real masterpiece. Well to each his own, but sometimes we can't pick or choose what we get stuck in out there and if the **** hits the fan weather wise, I would still rather be in my old heavy German Frers design.
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Old 22-01-2015, 20:27   #139
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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I tend to look at designs in a professional way. Yes it is a good design, that does not mean that it makes the taste of everyone. Taste or preferences has nothing to do with quality in design. A classic design can be good or bad a modern one can be good or bad.
And I look at it from a sailing perspective. If you look at the Solaris 44 or 44 interior I see an almost complete lack of grab rails and handholds in the interior and to me this makes for a bad design and broken ribs, just plain dangerous in heavy seas. I suspect we have all been thrown around at one point or another down below and understand how important this is to sailors who venture out in weather. Dangerous design is bad design.

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Funny you talk like modern design was an European thing. It does not seem amazing to you that the boats that sell more on the US are the ones that feature that "European" design? It seems to me that on the US the ones that have money to buy new boats like what you call popular style in Europe, that off course has nothing to do with Europe: Modern style is Universal.
That's a good point. As large as it is, and developed from east to west as it was, there are specific design styles that have evolved geographically in North America and these influences are still stronger in some places than in others, whether it be sack suits and Cape Cod designs on the east coast or California villas and surfing shorts on the west coast. Regardless, the unadorned cabinetry you see on the Solaris is known as the' euro look' here, and while it is popular, particularly in west coast and urban contemporary design, builders in the east such as Sabre, Tartan, and Morris still typically build traditional interiors with more elaborate mill-work, These are more expensive to make and I believe the primary reason the low cost producers prefer that Euro cabinet and interior style.
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Old 23-01-2015, 17:21   #140
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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And I look at it from a sailing perspective. If you look at the Solaris 44 or 44 interior I see an almost complete lack of grab rails and handholds in the interior and to me this makes for a bad design and broken ribs, just plain dangerous in heavy seas. I suspect we have all been thrown around at one point or another down below and understand how important this is to sailors who venture out in weather. Dangerous design is bad design.

....
You can see better on the movie the two long and strong stainless steel handlebars along the central cabin ceiling (min 2.12). There are also vertical ones near the stair.
Solaris ONE 44 on Vimeo
You can see on the photo you posted that there is also one along the stove with provision for clipping you to it. The photo you posted was taken with a grand angular and the distances seem much bigger then what they are, I mean between handlebars.
Maybe not good enough for you but good enough for me and most sailors, that would love to have one, if money was not a problem. An outstanding boat I would say.
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Old 24-01-2015, 06:29   #141
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

Grap bars placed where most people can't reach are called drying racks for wet clothing. They are laundry devices NOT safety. One should be able to grab handholds throughout the boat moving forward or aft.
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Old 24-01-2015, 06:59   #142
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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There was a J-Boat there as well as a first. I didn't go on board because I'm not really a racer. Did anybody notice if they had hand holds etc. Below deck?
Jboats has to lines of boats: racing boats and performance cruisers. The last one you should not visit if you don't like to sail fast, not if you are a racer

Saw some days ago the J122e with the new interior and just loved it, with dark read leader cushions and all. What a boat!
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Old 24-01-2015, 07:03   #143
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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Grap bars placed where most people can't reach are called drying racks for wet clothing. They are laundry devices NOT safety. One should be able to grab handholds throughout the boat moving forward or aft.
Drying racks for wet clothing on the middle of a saloon of a luxury boat? Really?



To know if they work or not, giving the distortion wide angles give to the photos increasing distances, you have to be inside the boat and try them. Yes they work and are obviously hand holds and not "drying racks for wet clothing"
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Old 24-01-2015, 07:13   #144
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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Drying racks for wet clothing on the middle of a saloon of a luxury boat? Really?

To know if they work or not, giving the distortion wide angles give to the photos increasing distances, you have to be inside the boat and try them. Yes they work and are obviously hand holds and not "drying racks for wet clothing"

Of course they work for the average guy but not so good for shorter women. Hand holds at chest height are much better but the designers struggle with these as they cost more and it is harder to make them look good on some of the modern interiors. These designs need a clean look.
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Old 24-01-2015, 07:57   #145
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

I agree about the height issue. My wife is 5'7". On the new Bavaria Vision 42 she could barely reach the grab bars on the cabin ceiling. Oddly on the 46 she could. Of course I am 6'5" so loved the height in both.

A simple fix if they just extend the bars down further, but it would not look as clean.

Would hanging straps like on a bus or subway work? Or do you need something more rigid?
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Old 24-01-2015, 22:59   #146
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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Its Toronto Boat show time again, so I and the wife trotted down yesterday to have a look at the sailboats.
Back in 2001 I was enjoying myself wandering around the (North American) countryside looking for a boat.

I went to the Newport Boat Show. There were lots of folks wandering around the docks and grounds, many of them spiffy in obviously new Henri Lloyd offshore jackets and boating shoes. I wore a scruffy jacket and sweater.

So I went to the Annapolis Boat Show and, again, there were lots of folks who graced the place with their presence wandering around in their Gill and Henry Lloyd offshore jackets and boating shoes. I felt a little out of it. so afterwards I got a float coat and Sperry Topsiders so I'd look more serious.

Along came the Toronto Boat Show in January and I went, walking straight and tall in my bright new orange float coat and white Sperry Topsiders, thinking I'd fit right in. Everybody else wore Maple Leafs jackets and galoshes.
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Old 25-01-2015, 06:41   #147
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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I agree about the height issue. My wife is 5'7". On the new Bavaria Vision 42 she could barely reach the grab bars on the cabin ceiling. Oddly on the 46 she could. Of course I am 6'5" so loved the height in both.

A simple fix if they just extend the bars down further, but it would not look as clean.

Would hanging straps like on a bus or subway work? Or do you need something more rigid?
You need rigid grabs when healing hard in choppy seas. You can wind up with your balance supported by your hands, not your legs. It's surprisingly easy to break a rib down below on a sailboat.
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Old 26-01-2015, 18:44   #148
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

Just finished reading through the 15 pages of this thread with much interest. I'm not a cruiser yet, but I'm working towards it by sailing, taking classes, reading and visiting boat shows. I've been sailing for about two years, mostly on Oceanis 34 and 38. Last April I was at the strictly sail Pacific. My impression (admittedly as a novice) was as follows. Going on the Catalinas and Hunters felt like entering a Toyota Corolla or Honda Accord. Seems like a solid no frills ride. Going into the Bene and Jeaneau felt like the Lexus and Infinity. Much more luxurious and easier to justify the price to the wife. Then I entered the Bavaria Vision and thought I just entered a Mercedes. Seems luxurious with quality craftsmanship all around. Until I learn differently, the Vision is my target boat.

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Old 26-01-2015, 18:46   #149
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

Oh, and by the way, grab rails? Get some at West Marine and install them wherever you like. I will not rule out a boat because lack of of misplaced grab rails.

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Old 26-01-2015, 19:27   #150
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Re: Went to the Boatshow Today...

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Originally Posted by Seymore View Post
Back in 2001 I was enjoying myself wandering around the (North American) countryside looking for a boat.

I went to the Newport Boat Show. There were lots of folks wandering around the docks and grounds, many of them spiffy in obviously new Henri Lloyd offshore jackets and boating shoes. I wore a scruffy jacket and sweater.

So I went to the Annapolis Boat Show and, again, there were lots of folks who graced the place with their presence wandering around in their Gill and Henry Lloyd offshore jackets and boating shoes. I felt a little out of it. so afterwards I got a float coat and Sperry Topsiders so I'd look more serious.

Along came the Toronto Boat Show in January and I went, walking straight and tall in my bright new orange float coat and white Sperry Topsiders, thinking I'd fit right in. Everybody else wore Maple Leafs jackets and galoshes.
When I went last week I had a "nautical" hoodie I got at TJ Maxx, over a V-neck T-shirt, jeans and, oh, okay, I was wearing Topsiders, but my bell bottom jeans hid them.

But then I succumbed when I saw a very cute Henry Lloyd jacket at $60 off what the other vendors were asking. It was pink.

But, you know, one must have a hint of color.
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