Used Charter Company Boats

[OldFrog75]

I'm a club/charter sailor so I'm a borrower not an owner but were I to buy a used boat I would look for the sailing equivalent of a "garage queen"; a boat that was well taken care of by it's owner(s) and avoid a charter boat. I'm always amazed at how little regard many charterers have for the boats they use and although they might pay to repair the damages they cause, I would prefer a boat that wasn't damaged in the first place. I might change my mind if the charter boat were dirt cheap but then again I might just get what I paid for.

[Glacial erratic]

OldFrog.....I understand the garage queen concept. That's how I got my 2006 $36K grand marquis for $12K. Any suggestions as to how to search such gems?


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[OldFrog75]

Originally Posted by Glacial erratic

OldFrog.....I understand the garage queen concept. That's how I got my 2006 $36K grand marquis for $12K. Any suggestions as to how to search such gems?


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It won't be easy. Just like with a car, you will most likely have to read a lot of ads and look at a lot of different boats. You might get lucky via word of mouth if you frequent a local marina. You also might find a broker you can trust who will search for you.

Here is a link primarily for sale by owner:

Sailboat Listings - sailboats for sale

[MarkJ]

I sailed mine around the world.

As upgrades I bought an EPIRB. Nothing else for the first 10,000 miles.

Totally stock standard Beneteau ex-sunsail. Still goes like a dream

[Rubikoop]

I've been holding off commenting on this thread but following. A better question might be to ask; Who bought a used charter boat and found it to be a terrible vessel?

I've no doubt there are some real lemons out there. Mostly what I read are people who buy them and end up very satisfied. I look at Zanshin and Mark as two on just this forum.

Since the local salvage company is near where I work, I see a lot of damaged private vessels coming in with major damage or even submersion. After the boatyard has repaired and then the owner moves it back to the states, how would anyone know the history of the vessel?

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used charter boat after a thorough survey. The prices in the BVI are truly amazing.


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[a64pilot]

The Garage Queens are out there, most amount to neglected boats though, but true gems do exist, just have to be ready to buy now when you find one.
It took a long time looking but I found my Island Packet who's interior looked new and the engine had 500 hours on it, pure stock boat, no cruising gear, but I look at that as unmolested systems, plus at her age I'd be replacing everything electronic anyway.

[Terra Nova]

The trouble I see, from ex-charter boats I have worked on, is that many of them appear to have been beaten up, from one end of the boat to the other. Careless/abusive rental crews can do a lot of damage to a yacht's interior, alone, adding decades of "aging" in a matter of a few years. Some buyers are willing to accept such poor condition, thinking they are getting a bargain.

[OldFrog75]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

The trouble I see, from ex-charter boats I have worked on, is that many of them appear to have been beaten up, from one end of the boat to the other. Careless/abusive rental crews can do a lot of damage to a yacht's interior, alone, adding decades of "aging" in a matter of a few years. Some buyers are willing to accept such poor condition, thinking they are getting a bargain.

Interesting that our opinions are so similar - the common thread being we are both sailing in So. California. Maybe charter boats in foreign locales are less abused and better maintained.

[annsni]

Originally Posted by Glacial erratic

Sounds like you had a great experience with it! Do you recall if you had any post-purchase surprises? Did you opt for a survey first?


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Oh, we absolutely had a suvey done and there was nothing major that came up. The only surprise that we had was finding out our inverter was originally the inverter for our friend's C42 that had also come out of charter. LOL. Oh and there were a few modifications to it that made it easier for the charter company like an isolated battery for the starter and two water pumps. We also got a freezer which was not original but we LOVE it! Again, it was a great experience for is and we have been thrilled with the boat since we got it.

[contrail]

I have had an ex-Moorings crewed cat for ten years now, and she has been worth every penny I paid. Some points not covered: Some charter companies dive on their boats before an after each charter. Some don't. Find out! The business model of a charter company that guarantees a payment (usually "first tier") may lead to skimping on maintenance, since it comes off their bottom line. The business model of a charter company (often second or even third tier) that charges its owners for all expenses is much more like a boat management company, whereby they charge the owner for all the maintenance. This arrangement can lead to over maintenance, rather than under maintenance, since the way they make a good bit of their money is through maintenance, but which boat would you rather buy? If the charter company has a good local reputation, and if the owner's of its boats trust it to do the work they charge for, their boats are likely to be really well kept, since it is, in every regard, in their interest to make the effort to do so. So, don't discount boats in second tier charter and do find out the company's operating plan.

Cheers,
Tim

[Ex-Calif]

Interesting difference of experience for Terra and OldFrog. I am wondering if their experience is tier 2 charter companies - i.e. boats in second gen charter.

I have chartered 6 boats in 2 years and they were all great. I have a friend who bought an ex-SunSail Jeanneu 36 and he loves it and it's a great boat.

Horses for courses (whatever that means) and everyone will have a different pool of boats they are looking at.

[nautical62]

I second the red herring statement.

I owned a boat that was in charter for 7 years. While it had many days of use, they were mostly short days in protected waters. Most importantly the charter company had to maintain the boat in charter ready condition. Most used boats I've seen for sale, not in charter, were in much, much worse condition than mine was when I took full possession of it.

The one problem I had is common and that is polishing the fuel. Since charter boats are used in protected waters, it's not uncommon for growth and silt that's been sitting peacefully at the bottom of the tank to come loose when doing harder sailing.

That's the only issue I had when taking the boat out of charter and sailing it back to Florida.

[MarkJ]

Theres been lots of threads where people who have never bought an ex-charter boat slag them off, but I don't think I can remember any thread where someone says they were sold a lemon.

Certainly I've never met anyone who has complained about Moorings/Sunsail.

I get lots of emails about people who are about to take the plunge, probably one per week or 2 weeks, and none of them have gotten back to me with a bad story.

So I wonder if its my memory of threads on CF failing? Surely there should be a couple of dozen threads after the hundreds of boats each year that get sold?

BTW A surveyor will pick the big problems, like if the boat has been on the rocks. The Charter companies maintenance file will show any ongoing engine problems, and a onsite, onsight, inspection - NOT internet photos will fix the argument "Careless/abusive rental crews can do a lot of damage to a yacht's interior, alone, adding decades of "aging" in a matter of a few years. Some buyers are willing to accept such poor condition, thinking they are getting a bargain."

I certainly got a bargain: I went looking for a Beneteau 361 in Florida and the cheapest one was $5,000 (offer rejected) more than my 393... and as anyone can tell you 3 feet is a lot on a boat. And if I sold mine at a fire sale price it would only have cost me a few grand per year (plus upkeep). To me thats a bloody bargain!


Mark

[Andy73]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

SNIP
True, the renters don't take care of them, but the rental car companies do.
SNIP
I take way better care of my cars than most people I know, and even I don't stick to the kind of strict maintenance schedule that rental car companies do.

Charter boats may not get cared for very well by the charterers, but they get much better care from the charter-boat companies than most owners give their boats.
SNIP

This is spot on... Any boat you buy may have been mistreated by the owners, and while that is probably less likely compared to the rapid turnover in a charter situation, the maintenance/inspection process is a significant factor.

Ultimately, it comes down to your confidence in the charter company. Did they do all the maint work they said they had? If so, and the boat suits your needs, it should probably be considered strongly.

[a64pilot]

A boat is a fairly simple mechanical system, and not that difficult to inspect, while some chartered boats boats may have been abused, it should be easy to determine if one has, just as some privately owned boats, although usually with the privately owned, it's neglect, they can sit for long periods before the owner finally decides to sell