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Old 16-07-2017, 14:41   #1
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Unsure of cracks in bonding material

Have just delivered my first sailboat from Portugal to Norway, a 2010 Bene Oceanis 40' and have noticed a few small new cracks in the grey bonding material between the hull and inner support systems that were not present in surveys.

A few days of the trip were spent sailing to weather in 20-30 kn under main and engine so obviously some pounding in the forward region nothing serious I thought but I'm not totally confident what the limits of this size/hull of Beneteau actually is.

As I'm unsure of the construction methods and what kind of forces this particular bonding material should endure before cracking I though I would ask if any Beneteau owners have experienced this or if anyone knows how normal this is?

The largest is pictured and in the forward cabin and a few others around the vessel smaller and little chips of glass in drains etc..Click image for larger version

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Old 16-07-2017, 14:53   #2
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Re: Unsure of cracks in bonding material

Plexus failure,bored to see this stuff around for so long, the only way to fix it properly is surgery in the flanges...
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Old 16-07-2017, 14:58   #3
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Re: Unsure of cracks in bonding material

Have you inspected around the keel bolts, both bonding and the laminate close to the edge of the backing plates? Please post photos, if you see ANY cracks or delamination.
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Old 16-07-2017, 15:54   #4
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Re: Unsure of cracks in bonding material

I'm not an expert but have spent a bit of time thrashing production boats around a race track and offshore and seen much worse. I doubt that is a major unless you are seeing it around the keel attachment. But I would sure be monitoring it and maybe mark the edges of the cracks to see if its spreading. Also have a look when the boat is loaded up with some heel and waves to see if you can actually see any movement.
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Old 16-07-2017, 17:02   #5
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Re: Unsure of cracks in bonding material

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Originally Posted by B00B00 View Post
I'm not an expert but have spent a bit of time thrashing production boats around a race track and offshore and seen much worse. I doubt that is a major unless you are seeing it around the keel attachment. But I would sure be monitoring it and maybe mark the edges of the cracks to see if its spreading. Also have a look when the boat is loaded up with some heel and waves to see if you can actually see any movement.
Rudder area bulkheads are also good places to check.
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Old 17-07-2017, 02:21   #6
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Re: Unsure of cracks in bonding material

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
Have you inspected around the keel bolts, both bonding and the laminate close to the edge of the backing plates? Please post photos, if you see ANY cracks or delamination.


This is the furthest aft keel bolt and there is a very fine 30cm transverse crack. Here is the two pics.

Have also checked the Grid system through the rest of the hull including rudder area and found no other cracks.
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Old 17-07-2017, 07:26   #7
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Re: Unsure of cracks in bonding material

Dig the tip of a knife and see if they are deep, probably cosmetic , the 1 pic show bonding failure for sure ,, and the Mickey mouse backing plate, no comment...
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Old 17-07-2017, 09:49   #8
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Re: Unsure of cracks in bonding material

its what is called bog.


it cabosil and expoxy it filler and has no structural strength just used a putty


if it bothers you dig out around it and fill it with 5200, otherwise pencil mark the ends for creep to see if it continues and monitor it. its essentially released due to stress relief
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Old 17-07-2017, 10:27   #9
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Re: Unsure of cracks in bonding material

Beneteau's have some history with keel bolts and flexing hull support members in the past not to sure what years it involved but remember reading reading several such reports, after the recent Cheeki Rafiti loss and subsequent issues pay to keep a good eye on the situation with a possible dry dock to to see if any cracks are noticed outside (or dive check) https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-yachts-safety
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Old 17-07-2017, 10:43   #10
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Re: Unsure of cracks in bonding material

  • Painting critical areas of laminate makes real inspection impossible and is a common, bad practice.
  • The backing plate should be 5 boat diameters. With a small plate, the bolt can overwhelm the compression strength, leading to internal delamination followed by shear failure.
  • Covering a crack with 3M 5200 so that it cannot be monitored is an inspector's nightmare. I'm sorry, but that is a potentially dangerous practice. Fix the problem.
I doubt these problems are terribly serious, but I'd watch them. The fact that they were NOT there in prior surveys is concerning, and I would avoid testing the boat with rough weather. Sorry, but if they weren't there before, something changed.



The statements that people have seen worse is not comforting, considering we have also heard of "sunk."
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Old 17-07-2017, 13:53   #11
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Re: Unsure of cracks in bonding material

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_hawk View Post
Have just delivered my first sailboat from Portugal to Norway, a 2010 Bene Oceanis 40' and have noticed a few small new cracks in the grey bonding material between the hull and inner support systems that were not present in surveys.

A few days of the trip were spent sailing to weather in 20-30 kn under main and engine so obviously some pounding in the forward region nothing serious I thought but I'm not totally confident what the limits of this size/hull of Beneteau actually is.

As I'm unsure of the construction methods and what kind of forces this particular bonding material should endure before cracking I though I would ask if any Beneteau owners have experienced this or if anyone knows how normal this is?

The largest is pictured and in the forward cabin and a few others around the vessel smaller and little chips of glass in drains etc..Attachment 152035
I called the Beneteau Factory about this on behalf of a customer with a 2005 Oceanus 46. Was told it was purely cosmetic and had no bearing on structural integrity whatsoever. Repaired with epoxy and painted with bilgekote.
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Old 17-07-2017, 14:07   #12
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Re: Unsure of cracks in bonding material

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
I called the Beneteau Factory about this on behalf of a customer with a 2005 Oceanus 46. Was told it was purely cosmetic and had no bearing on structural integrity whatsoever. Repaired with epoxy and painted with bilgekote.
LoL. No surprise coming from Beneteau, cosmetic sure...
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Old 17-07-2017, 14:24   #13
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Re: Unsure of cracks in bonding material

I have just seen some photos of a very high profile mid 40s beneteau structual grid. One whole side was detached from the hull with gaps around 5mm in places while the boat is on the hard sitting on the keel. Apparently when its in the water there are no gaps just cracks. The said boat has just sailed halfway round the world and its very likley that the grid liner was like this the whole time. They did have a grounding during the trip. Its getting fixed now and seems to be no big deal.
So having seen that i would say that maybe as long as the grid itself is intact, the structure of the boat is probably still sufficient and can be fixed easy enough. I would be worried if there was any movement in the keel area though especially with the washer so close to the edge of the flange.
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Old 17-07-2017, 15:07   #14
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Re: Unsure of cracks in bonding material

The 90% of Beneteaus have the rigging tie rods attached to the grid, mast compresión post sitting on top of the grid, engine mounts bolted to the grid, and keel bolts through bolted to the grid flanges, any loose in the integrity of the hull grid matrix its a concern, this boats have thin hull layups and the grid play a big role in the integrity of the hull , 2 cracks could be no problema , now the 1 pic show a horrible crack ...
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Old 17-07-2017, 20:29   #15
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Re: Unsure of cracks in bonding material

Quote:
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The backing plate should be 5 boat diameters.
Wow, that's a HUGE backing plate

I'd go with 5 bolt diameters...

(Sorry, couldn't resist).

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