Unprofessional Broker

[TCL]

I'm not sure if this will be worthwhile to anyone, but I wanted to report on my dissatisfying experience with a listing broker: Carey English, with St. Bart's Yachts near Jacksonville, Fla.

He had a boat listed on Yachtworld, and I had my broker contact him about showing the boat. I traveled to where the boat was stored and after speaking with a couple of surveyors, had my broker send a purchase agreement with an offer (about 66% of asking price). English texted back that they would be sending a written counteroffer at about 86% asking price. I told my broker that when we got the counteroffer, I'd raise mine by about 15%, which would get to about 76% of asking price. My broker relayed a second message from English that said there would be no written counteroffer, only his text. At that point, expecting a counteroffer signed by the seller, I was suspicious that English hadn't even brought the offer to his seller. Nevertheless, I raised my offer. The response, in two separate messages, was that the previous counteroffer was the "final" price.

I spent a couple of weeks looking at other boats, but kept in the back of my mind that this was a potential purchase at that price. Having priced the replacement cost of all of the systems that were not working (watermaker, new forward head, new master a/c unit, new wind generators--even potentially a new engine), I thought that this might be a worthwhile purchase--depending on the result of the survey.

After trying once more at around 80% of asking price, I told my broker to prepare a new purchase agreement with what English had texted twice was the "final" price. He then responded that he "thought the price was $X, but he was wrong. His seller would only take $Y," which raised the price by $5K. And that the boat was only for sale "as-is." (The Yachtworld listing included the note that the seller would replace the house battery bank with 8 new golf cart batteries at closing; I told my broker that we wanted to make sure that was reflected in the purchase agreement, and English responded by claiming that the listing didn't say that. It was and still is in the listing as of today.)

I suppose that this could have been a misunderstanding between the listing broker and his seller, but the circumstances indicate to me that he never even brought the previous offers to the seller, which it is my understanding that brokers are ethically obliged to do. And it would have been nice to believe for 2 weeks that this boat was available at one price (relying on two separate texts) when it wasn't. Perhaps it seems like simply sour grapes on my part, but I wanted pass along what I thought was unprofessional conduct.

[roverhi]

Pretty sure it's required that a listing broker present an offer to the seller. In your case it may have been a not enthusiastic seller who didn't want to take the time to generate a written signed counter offer hence the verbal counter. As you found out, verbal offers aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Oh wait, they're verbal so not written. From the narrative, it seems you were playing games with the price and/or the seller took it that way and didn't take kindly to it.

[moctrams]

Make an offer for what you think the boat is worth and "walk away" if the seller rejects the offer. There are too many good boats on the market to put up with a broker like English.

[JPA Cate]

Cruel fact of life: the job of the broker is to make money for him or herself. When the OP kept upping his offers, the broker probably figured he'd hang tough at what the seller wanted. Too bad. Bad stuff happens. It's one reason to buy direct from an owner.

Ann

[Hudson Force]

It's good of you to share your frustration. I can understand where feedback from texts and phone calls can be frustrating if they are unproductive.

I would not judge this as being "unprofessional" behavior, but I can recognize limitations in communication.

I need to be upfront and forthright myself though, I'm influenced by knowing Carey English for a number of years and this gives me the expectation that he would not be unprofessional.

[Suijin]

Fact of the matter is that you're hypothesizing about the why of what happened and have no real way of knowing. But it doesn't really matter why it happened, as the broker is at the very least incompetent.

I'm also not sure if them "reneging" on the new batteries is technically unprofessional/unethical. That "promise" may be subject to an offer at the asking price, or it may be subject to negotiation. It is not part of the boat's listed inventory. You'd have to check with a broker's association, like CPYB, to know for sure. That said, it strikes me as bait-and-switchish even if it's not flat out unethical.

[rwidman]

One thing the Internet has brought us is an easy way to slander a person or business without any repercussion.

You are anonymous here so you can post anything you want about anyone you want. It would mean a lot more if you posted your actual name like you did his.

[SV THIRD DAY]

I'm still not sure what the Broker did wrong...he's working for the Seller to get the highest price not for the buyer. He was walking you up in $ on each offer, so wasn't he doing his job for his client? I'm not sure your frustration in not getting what you want constitutes unprofessionalism on the Brokers part.

[missourisailor]

I have to agree with some of the other responses here.
The broker was doing his job. That is getting the most money for his client.

When we bought our current boat a few years ago, not only were we “out of state” buyers, but the owners were “out of country”.
Even though he went above and beyond his duties, he made no qualms about whom his client was. The owner was paying him, not I.

The price negotiation took weeks as each offer/counter offer took days due to distance and travel itinerary of the owners. In the end, after several weeks of $5k counters, he told me that I needed to make my final offer. And he would do his best to get the deal done.
My final offer was accepted shortly there after.

What went on behind the scenes, I don’t have a clue. But suspect that he too was tiring of the ordeal.

After the sale, and during our acceptance visit, he not only loaned us his company car but negotiated a heck of a deal at a local hotel and even provided coupons to a couple of local restaurants. None of which he was obligated to do.

Fast forward several years, his professionalism so impressed me, that I have since recommended him to several dock mates. Both of them hired him.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by TCL

...had my broker send a purchase agreement with an offer (about 66% of asking price)...

Had I been the broker, I would not have bothered the seller with your low-ball offer.

Originally Posted by rwidman

One thing the Internet has brought us is an easy way to slander a person or business without any repercussion.

You are anonymous here so you can post anything you want about anyone you want. It would mean a lot more if you posted your actual name like you did his.

This.

[RidgeRunner]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Had I been the broker, I would not have bothered the seller with your low-ball offer.



This.

CPYB CODE OF ETHICS
part IV,
article(f): All offers received by listing Broker should be transmitted to owner in a timely fashion and with timely response to the co-Broker. Remember that as a listing Broker, you are obligated to present all information at hand to a seller promptly and without prejudice.

[leftbrainstuff]

Vote with your feet. As the potential purchaser you are in control until you sign a purchase agreement.

If the broker doesnt like your lowball he can refuse it. Its up to you to counter offer.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[olaf hart]

I think you should remove the brokers name and company, or delete the thread.

You have no evidence to back your suppositions, but have still slandered an individual.

[Island Time O25]

Having been real estate broker and investor before for a number of years it always amuses me when a seller "gets insulted" about an offer and even the definition of an offer as "low ball" makes me laugh. It is not like one's kid or wife are being called ugly or dumb. It is a business transaction and as such there is no need to get personal and touchy with it. First of all a broker MUST communicate ANY offer to the seller and if he fails to do so should be reported to the licensing authorities. And if the seller feels the offer is too low he should plainly communicate that view through his broker to the potential buyer or his broker. As my first mentor in real estate business taught us - the broker's job is not only to try to get the most $$ for the seller but to make a real effort the get the most $$ for right now and have the seller accept that as the best $$ for right now. In the OP's example if in the near future the boat does not sell anywhere near the 80% the OP was willing to pay, the broker failed his principal. And failed tremendously as it may be years until that boat will sell at all never mind close to the highest OP's offer. As my mentor used to say - a great broker will twist both the seller's and the buyer's b*lls to make a sale go through, a good broker will twist only the buyer's and a bad broker will twist neither.

[Jim Cate]

Seems to me that there are two different things being discussed here:

The statutory requirement for the broker to submit ALL offers to the seller (seemingly proven) even if "low ball", and

the ethics of posting the broker's name in such a manner, possibly a libelous manner.

The latter is certainly arguable... I think if i was the broker in question, I'd be upset by the public denouncement,even if I had failed to live up to the rules.

Jim