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**Adelie** · 23-02-2010, 23:07

It sounds like the last post is saying dniello shouldn't go because he(/she) and partner can't afford a new boat, cuz $50K isn't going to buy a new boat big enough to go offshore in ready to go condition, and by big enough I mean big enough to not induce homicidal cabin fever with a partner.

I disagree with the premise that you need a new boat or even a name brand cuising boat (ie. Valiant, Westsail, Pacific Seacraft) to go offshore. I think a lot of the mid-60's to early-70's production boats would be just fine going around the world even. From the mid-70's on a lot more discretion (sic) is needed because of the effect new racing rules had on boat shape and scantlings in general purpose boats generally.

A quick and dirty way to get an idea of how well a boat was built is to look at the weight of the boat. Pick a length then look at the weights of all makes and models +/- 1' in length from target length. A slight refinement would be to look at hull weight (ie. total displacement minus ballast). A spreadsheet will do this quite easily. There are some caveats like don't include cored hulls and while heavier boats will generally be stronger, quality of build also makes a difference but that is a much more subjectively evaluated issue. Fortunately few if any production boats from the mid-60's to early-70's were cored.

Having picked a size I would use the list of boats to eliminate the ones that are significantly lighter than their peers. I would then spring for an hour of time from 3 different surveyors just to ask them questions about boat construction quality for the ones still on the list. Then compare what they all said about each model. I'd want surveyors who have been working 10-20 and have seen a lot of different boats first hand. The surveyors would also be good for advice on what if anything to beef up in the hull and rudder.

Any boat that is bought should be surveyed. The surveyor will indicate all the damage in the boat that needs to be repaired.

barnakiel · 24-02-2010, 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adelie

Any boat that is bought should be surveyed. The surveyor will indicate all the damage in the boat that needs to be repaired.

Yes / No.

Some buyers have more knowledge than some surveyors, and some surveyors are in cahoots with brokers. If you have the know how, skip the surveyor or hire one to opinion on just the things you are not sure of how they are and why the are.

An inexperienced sailor / buyer, with little knowledge and experience SHOULD use a surveyor.

But should we encourage inexperienced sailors with little knowledge of boats and boating experience to undertake long offshore passages?

b.

**Adelie** · 24-02-2010, 08:59

Point taken on surveyor vs sailor experience. Steps can be taken to find a surveyor who is independant, ie pay for extra travel and check if they are accredited. This will improve your odds. Even as a knowledgable sailor I would likely use a surveyor on any boat over about $10k to catch little things I would miss, in part because they approach the boat in an organized fasion (sic).

Encouraging inexperienced sailors to take long offshore passages is another issue. I don't see offering advice as encouragement.

I know of very raw people who have gone around the world (RLGrahm & TAbei) and I know second hand of somebody in the Pacific Northwest who spent 10yr fitting out their boat so it was perfect to the exclusion of going sailing very much and they disappeared on their first passage.

In the specific instance of dniello inexperience can only inferred from the fact he/she is asking for advice on what boats to buy. But that also speaks well for his/her judgement. On the other hand if they are experienced it also speaks well of them that they are questioning their own assumptions and beliefs.

In the general case of an inexperienced person asking for advice, anybody posting on this site is an adult. Prepping a boat for passage is a daunting task even for the experienced. Anybody that makes it through that is determined and little that we say could stop them whereas our advice might save them.

That said, the one piece of advice I should have included in my first post was to begin sailing the boat as often as possible beginning when you buy it, everyboat has it's quirks and you have to sail to find them. Don't spend all your free time fitting out before setting off on passage.

Bash · 24-02-2010, 09:50

You should understand that much of the Hunter bashing you'll hear on internet forums such as this originates with yacht brokerage personnel who are frustrated at the number of sales they lose to Hunter dealers who are able to offer so much more boat for the buck.

In reality, there are scores of the old Hunter 37.5 model out there still cruising, doing so with no more issues than any other production boat would face after a couple decades on the water.

I own a 2006 Hunter that's got a kevlar-reinforced hull that's built like a tank, and I've never once felt the boat flex or oil-can while offshore. I've spent a good deal of time in a forum with other Hunter owners, and have never heard anyone complain of their hulls flexing. And the bulkheads on my boat are not merely tabbed in.

I don't mean to claim that Hunter hasn't had problems or made mistakes over the years, just as any other large production boat manufacturer has. The point is that you should take the Hunter bashing with a grain of salt.

**boatman61** · 24-02-2010, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bash

You should understand that much of the Hunter bashing you'll hear on internet forums such as this originates with yacht brokerage personnel who are frustrated at the number of sales they lose to Hunter dealers who are able to offer so much more boat for the buck.

In reality, there are scores of the old Hunter 37.5 model out there still cruising, doing so with no more issues than any other production boat would face after a couple decades on the water.

I own a 2006 Hunter that's got a kevlar-reinforced hull that's built like a tank, and I've never once felt the boat flex or oil-can while offshore. I've spent a good deal of time in a forum with other Hunter owners, and have never heard anyone complain of their hulls flexing. And the bulkheads on my boat are not merely tabbed in.

I don't mean to claim that Hunter hasn't had problems or made mistakes over the years, just as any other large production boat manufacturer has. The point is that you should take the Hunter bashing with a grain of salt.

Not bashing.... merely stating what my '81' Hunter 37 did and how it was constructed... tho must add winds 60kts+ and seas around 8 metres n breaking..lol.
Did get told by many Americans(90%) that I was nuts to attempt a crossing in one... 3 similar boats had gone down between Cape Lookout and Fear that year. My conclusions were based on info from your countrymen, some of whom were USCG and Marine instructors.

Bash · 24-02-2010, 10:35

If you want to explore the wisdom of my countrymen, I would refer you to John Steinbeck, who wrote in The Log of the Sea of Cortez, "Bad boats are built, surely, but not many of them."

Could we not apply this wisdom to Hunters as well?

**James S** · 24-02-2010, 11:10

Its starting to sound like this is getting a bit personal...
Lets try and remember that this is a "be nice" forum.
What was it that are parents used to say "if you don't have something nice to say blah...blah...blah.."

TaoJones · 24-02-2010, 11:17

James has it exactly right, but I have deleted the post he is referring to. His comment and my deletion have nothing to do with any of the posts immediately above.

Fishman_Tx · 24-02-2010, 11:19

Try a Bristol. Solid boat, skeg hung rudder (certain models); not good for liveaboard maybe, but good for cruising. Check the hull deck joint as some have a slight leakage issue.

Bristol info:
http://www.bristolowners.org/

Here's in your range, with a nice 40' also:
bristol (Sail) Boats For Sale

And here's a nice bank repo for $21k: (Anjou, you seeing this?)
1978 Bristol 35.5/SL Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

And that leaves plenty for upgrades, solar, wind, etc..........