Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-02-2010, 00:07   #16
Moderator
 
Adelie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 4,592
It sounds like the last post is saying dniello shouldn't go because he(/she) and partner can't afford a new boat, cuz $50K isn't going to buy a new boat big enough to go offshore in ready to go condition, and by big enough I mean big enough to not induce homicidal cabin fever with a partner.

I disagree with the premise that you need a new boat or even a name brand cuising boat (ie. Valiant, Westsail, Pacific Seacraft) to go offshore. I think a lot of the mid-60's to early-70's production boats would be just fine going around the world even. From the mid-70's on a lot more discretion (sic) is needed because of the effect new racing rules had on boat shape and scantlings in general purpose boats generally.

A quick and dirty way to get an idea of how well a boat was built is to look at the weight of the boat. Pick a length then look at the weights of all makes and models +/- 1' in length from target length. A slight refinement would be to look at hull weight (ie. total displacement minus ballast). A spreadsheet will do this quite easily. There are some caveats like don't include cored hulls and while heavier boats will generally be stronger, quality of build also makes a difference but that is a much more subjectively evaluated issue. Fortunately few if any production boats from the mid-60's to early-70's were cored.

Having picked a size I would use the list of boats to eliminate the ones that are significantly lighter than their peers. I would then spring for an hour of time from 3 different surveyors just to ask them questions about boat construction quality for the ones still on the list. Then compare what they all said about each model. I'd want surveyors who have been working 10-20 and have seen a lot of different boats first hand. The surveyors would also be good for advice on what if anything to beef up in the hull and rudder.

Any boat that is bought should be surveyed. The surveyor will indicate all the damage in the boat that needs to be repaired.
__________________

__________________
Adelie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2010, 08:49   #17
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post

Any boat that is bought should be surveyed. The surveyor will indicate all the damage in the boat that needs to be repaired.
Yes / No.

Some buyers have more knowledge than some surveyors, and some surveyors are in cahoots with brokers. If you have the know how, skip the surveyor or hire one to opinion on just the things you are not sure of how they are and why the are.

An inexperienced sailor / buyer, with little knowledge and experience SHOULD use a surveyor.

But should we encourage inexperienced sailors with little knowledge of boats and boating experience to undertake long offshore passages?

b.
__________________

__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2010, 09:59   #18
Moderator
 
Adelie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 4,592
Point taken on surveyor vs sailor experience. Steps can be taken to find a surveyor who is independant, ie pay for extra travel and check if they are accredited. This will improve your odds. Even as a knowledgable sailor I would likely use a surveyor on any boat over about $10k to catch little things I would miss, in part because they approach the boat in an organized fasion (sic).

Encouraging inexperienced sailors to take long offshore passages is another issue. I don't see offering advice as encouragement.

I know of very raw people who have gone around the world (RLGrahm & TAbei) and I know second hand of somebody in the Pacific Northwest who spent 10yr fitting out their boat so it was perfect to the exclusion of going sailing very much and they disappeared on their first passage.

In the specific instance of dniello inexperience can only inferred from the fact he/she is asking for advice on what boats to buy. But that also speaks well for his/her judgement. On the other hand if they are experienced it also speaks well of them that they are questioning their own assumptions and beliefs.

In the general case of an inexperienced person asking for advice, anybody posting on this site is an adult. Prepping a boat for passage is a daunting task even for the experienced. Anybody that makes it through that is determined and little that we say could stop them whereas our advice might save them.

That said, the one piece of advice I should have included in my first post was to begin sailing the boat as often as possible beginning when you buy it, everyboat has it's quirks and you have to sail to find them. Don't spend all your free time fitting out before setting off on passage.
__________________
Adelie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2010, 10:50   #19
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Hunter bashing

You should understand that much of the Hunter bashing you'll hear on internet forums such as this originates with yacht brokerage personnel who are frustrated at the number of sales they lose to Hunter dealers who are able to offer so much more boat for the buck.

In reality, there are scores of the old Hunter 37.5 model out there still cruising, doing so with no more issues than any other production boat would face after a couple decades on the water.

I own a 2006 Hunter that's got a kevlar-reinforced hull that's built like a tank, and I've never once felt the boat flex or oil-can while offshore. I've spent a good deal of time in a forum with other Hunter owners, and have never heard anyone complain of their hulls flexing. And the bulkheads on my boat are not merely tabbed in.

I don't mean to claim that Hunter hasn't had problems or made mistakes over the years, just as any other large production boat manufacturer has. The point is that you should take the Hunter bashing with a grain of salt.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2010, 11:14   #20
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,188
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
You should understand that much of the Hunter bashing you'll hear on internet forums such as this originates with yacht brokerage personnel who are frustrated at the number of sales they lose to Hunter dealers who are able to offer so much more boat for the buck.

In reality, there are scores of the old Hunter 37.5 model out there still cruising, doing so with no more issues than any other production boat would face after a couple decades on the water.

I own a 2006 Hunter that's got a kevlar-reinforced hull that's built like a tank, and I've never once felt the boat flex or oil-can while offshore. I've spent a good deal of time in a forum with other Hunter owners, and have never heard anyone complain of their hulls flexing. And the bulkheads on my boat are not merely tabbed in.

I don't mean to claim that Hunter hasn't had problems or made mistakes over the years, just as any other large production boat manufacturer has. The point is that you should take the Hunter bashing with a grain of salt.
Not bashing.... merely stating what my '81' Hunter 37 did and how it was constructed... tho must add winds 60kts+ and seas around 8 metres n breaking..lol.
Did get told by many Americans(90%) that I was nuts to attempt a crossing in one... 3 similar boats had gone down between Cape Lookout and Fear that year. My conclusions were based on info from your countrymen, some of whom were USCG and Marine instructors.
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2010, 11:35   #21
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
If you want to explore the wisdom of my countrymen, I would refer you to John Steinbeck, who wrote in The Log of the Sea of Cortez, "Bad boats are built, surely, but not many of them."

Could we not apply this wisdom to Hunters as well?
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2010, 12:10   #22
Registered User
 
James S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Yemen & Lebanon... the sailboat is in Lebenon, the dhow is in Yemen
Boat: 1978 CT48 & 65ft Cargo Dhow
Posts: 5,816
Images: 139
Its starting to sound like this is getting a bit personal...
Lets try and remember that this is a "be nice" forum.
What was it that are parents used to say "if you don't have something nice to say blah...blah...blah.."
__________________
James
S/V Arctic Lady
I love my boat, I can't afford not to!
James S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2010, 12:17   #23
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
James has it exactly right, but I have deleted the post he is referring to. His comment and my deletion have nothing to do with any of the posts immediately above.
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2010, 12:19   #24
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
Try a Bristol. Solid boat, skeg hung rudder (certain models); not good for liveaboard maybe, but good for cruising. Check the hull deck joint as some have a slight leakage issue.

Bristol info:
http://www.bristolowners.org/

Here's in your range, with a nice 40' also:
bristol (Sail) Boats For Sale

And here's a nice bank repo for $21k: (Anjou, you seeing this?)
1978 Bristol 35.5/SL Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

And that leaves plenty for upgrades, solar, wind, etc..........
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2010, 12:29   #25
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,188
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate

Nice looking boat Fisherman... wish I had the 'Dosh'... have heard Bristols are one of the better US marques....
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2010, 13:31   #26
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
We got a 34 for 5 grand that needs a LOT of work; sorely used. She's on the hard now but the weather has kept us out of the yard the last few weeks.
__________________

__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
round the world

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Boat for Singlehanded World Cruise Sail IC Monohull Sailboats 26 23-02-2010 11:55
Min Boat Length for 'Round the World Voyage? mattplowman General Sailing Forum 33 30-07-2009 11:08
Poll: Boat Maintenance on 'Round-the-World Trips Armada01 General Sailing Forum 5 19-07-2009 21:06
Is a 52 foot boat too big for world cruising marcus hayward Liveaboard's Forum 36 14-05-2008 22:04
Hello my new friends! Chief Engineer Meets & Greets 3 03-08-2006 18:32



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.