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Old 29-12-2011, 02:29   #46
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Re: Two Anchors ?

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Let me see, how many hulls does your boat have? Only one? Than you can't be a dark Jedi so indeed must be a Reformed one

But joking aside, let me tell all the new cruisers out there: please take this advice as it is about the most important aspect of cruising... get a real good, real big anchor. Get at least 120' of good chain. Get a windlass even with a 30' boat. Get a chain stopper (saved Jedi during hurricane Ivan). Practice setting that anchor again and again. When it is blowing 25 knots and your boat stays put while others start dragging or show fearful white faces while checking their anchors, start your engine, haul that anchor up and practice manouvering and anchoring again... it's different with a fresh breeze, master this.... because being at anchor is how you spend 90% or more of your time and it is when many, many tragedies occur when gear or techniques fail. If there is one thing to get right, this is it. One big anchor is right. The other anchors are for ifferent situations, not to help the primary anchor to cope with the load.

When it's blowing 35-50 knots at anchor, we are at anchor watch to fend dragging boats off. When it's cleared up in front of us (!!!), I go out with the dinghy to help/rescue others. Not many do that, let me see.... in 10 years in the Caribbean I met maybe 5 people doing the same during those conditions. Afterwards I go back to Jedi, put on dry clothes and drink coffee my wife brewed while I was gone and we sit in the pilothouse and I tell the same old stories about bent anchors, tangled nests of anchors/rodes, inoperable or non-existent windlasses, who did stay put, etc. and we go back to bed and sleep well with the wind still howling. We can do all that because we are absolutely sure that our anchor will hold.

cheers,
Nick.
I agree 100%
It should be compulsory reading for anyone staring out cursing
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Old 29-12-2011, 03:44   #47
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Re: Two Anchors ?

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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
I'm with you Nick. Two anchors off the bow are to be avoided whenever possible. If it really starts to blow like stink, I'd put out a tandem anchor before a Bahamian moor. A bahamian moor can turn into a mess even if one does not pull free. With reversing tides both rodes most often turn into a corkscrewed mess.
I am guessing that we are principally talking about 2 anchors set in different locations rather than in tandem.

This is an interesting article on tandems:-

Two to Tandem: Maximizing Holding Power by Tandem Anchoring
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Old 29-12-2011, 04:29   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I am guessing that we are principally talking about 2 anchors set in different locations rather than in tandem.

This is an interesting article on tandems:-

Two to Tandem: Maximizing Holding Power by Tandem Anchoring
Good piece DOJ, one of the few things I agree on with that (ex) Rocna fellow. It basically says to not do it unless your gear is hopeless and it's too late to replace it. It conforms to our 99% rule

But reading that I was shocked to find what they call a "modified Bahamian moor". Note the word "modified" which probably makes the statement true. But when I talk about a Bahamian moor being okay, it has nothing to do with that version of it which is exactly the worst thing to do.

The Bahamian moor that I mean is for use on tidal currents like rivers. The two anchors are opposing at 180 degrees, and you alternate between using one or the other as the tide turns.


Ps. Here is a good diagram ifvyou want to create a mooring which can be done big enough to make it a hurricane mooring. It uses 3 anchors:


ciao!
Nick.
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Old 29-12-2011, 06:01   #49
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Re: Two Anchors ?

I have a oversized Manson Supreme, My CQR is a spare only if i would loose the Supreme. I lost my Last spare and found my new Manson so it has balanced out if u can get my drift.
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Old 29-12-2011, 10:48   #50
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Re: Two Anchors ?

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I have not anchored on reversing tides that often... I think Key West in 2003 was the last time .
I anchor in reversing tides more often than not. In my local waters, the only time my boat is bow to the wind is during slack tide, otherwise, I'm bow into the tide, and our tides reverse every six-to-seven hours. What this means is that I'm seldom ever facing in the same direction in the morning that I went to sleep in the previous evening.

HOWEVER, I don't use a second anchor in this sitution 98% of the time. The solution is still to have a great anchor, an all-chain rode, a good set, and plenty of swinging room. At that point, the second line is not only superflouous, but also represents the best chance of the primary anchor fouling.

The only two times in the past decade I've set a stern anchor is when in a cove without adequate swinging room where the other boats have stern anchors out, such as sometimes happens in the Channel Islands, or in the Sacramento Delta where we put our bow into the reeds and use a kedge to keep us from going too far into the reeds. (In which case the kedge is more about bug management than security.)
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Old 29-12-2011, 12:01   #51
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Re: Two Anchors ?

Great post, Jedi (and Bash, too).

I am comfortable on our home mooring (a 12-ton piece of granite), but most anywhere else I prefer our single, large anchor.
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Old 29-12-2011, 12:33   #52
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Re: Two Anchors ?

OK my 2 cent's worth,I, have anchored all over the Bahama's some of the poorest holding I,have ever seen.Two Anchor's are asking for trouble,I.have seen too many example's to recount here.When setting your Anchor,MAKE sure it is set,I use a Fortress FX 27 on a 36 ft 13,000lb displacment Boat and onlt 10ft of chain.I,have Held thru TWO Hurricanes yes full fledged Hurricanes 1982 and 1996 and many Willie Wompers,40 plus knots of wind from no where usually in the middle of the night wind shifts and all.In 96 at Marsh Harbor Hurricane Bertha came thru.I was Anchored just inside the Harbor on short scope as it was crowded we weathered it forn over 30 hours as a band stalled over the area,Never once dragged.On the light side the Local's opened the Bar's for the Stay aboard Yachties after Bertha passed stayed awake another night celebrating.Safe Sailing to all
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Old 29-12-2011, 12:41   #53
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Re: Two Anchors ?

Just realized that my previous post suggests I would never pick up a mooring, which is certainly not true. No, I only meant that if I don't have confidence in the mooring than I would prefer to sit on my own anchor instead of some hybrid solution. See Jedi's 99% rule...
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Old 29-12-2011, 12:49   #54
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Julius Ceasar once said: "Gods, I hate the Gauls!". I feel the same way... about moorings I mean

The only ones I could not move with my engine were those huge blocks at Bonaire. I am pretty convinced that a well set 50 pound anchor will outperform a 2,000 pound concrete block.

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 30-12-2011, 05:06   #55
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Re: Two Anchors ?

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..........................................
If we are talking about hurricane force storms, there is time to prepare and do better than deploy two anchors.

cheers,
Nick.
This is a very interesting series of posts, but I'm not clear what Jedi means here and would welcome clarification

Thanks
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Old 30-12-2011, 05:19   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srah 1953

This is a very interesting series of posts, but I'm not clear what Jedi means here and would welcome clarification

Thanks
Preparing for a hurricane is very different than anchoring. For starters, you should look at sailing out of the path, which is often possible with days of advance warning. Other things, like removing sails and stowing inside the boat, help more than an extra anchor. Tying it into the mangroves like a spiderweb also makes a lot of sense. All these things we normally never do when anchoring... but when you sail in hurricane areas you should have plans and materials ready.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 30-12-2011, 05:19   #57
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pirate Re: Two Anchors ?

If I was going to use two anchors... and I have never had to to date...
unless you include a 'Med Style Mooring' with a line taken to a rock on shore..
I would rig them in tandem... maybe 10-15 metres of chain from the first to the second then however much chain from the second I felt was needed...
but a V.. no way mate....
Oh... and don't forget to have a marker bouy attatched in case you have to cast off in extreme cicumstances...
Saves diving when you return to retrive..
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Old 30-12-2011, 07:31   #58
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Re: Two Anchors ?

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Sure, you can get tangles using two or more anchors, but my basic philosophy is that it is best to not drag anchor in the first place--I can always sort out the problems later. Plus, you can learn techniques that will minimize the hassles and prevent most of the problems. Two anchors aren't problem free, but they can help you to avoid worse problems.

What about a wide V in front and an anchor stern? Oh never mind -- wind shifts, you end up with the waves coming at you broadside.

If the V is set widely, how likely is it that your rodes would get tangled? I'm still learning about anchoring (well, I'm still learning about EVERYTHING ...)
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Old 30-12-2011, 08:30   #59
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Re: Two Anchors ?

Raku,

Tangling aside, both anchors are compromised with the hooks in a V. It's a question of leverage: the wider the V the more force the boat exerts on the anchors. Imagine yourself on a set of gymnastics rings - it's pretty easy to do a pull up with arms straight ahead, but how many of us can hold the "iron cross?"
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Old 30-12-2011, 08:53   #60
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Re: Two Anchors ?

Two anchors are generally better than one. Besides the obvious qualities like increased maneuverability and a backup to possible mechanical failures, or storm management, a more comfortable ride offered by employing 2 anchors is noticeable with a forked (45-60° set) or Bahamian rig (too complicated for most folk). A backed up anchor or tandem set can be problematic in calm waters, but in heavy wind or strong currents, they can save your butt. Bottom line, two anchors are measurably better than one, if your scope is correct, your rig suitable for conditions and are experienced enough to manage.
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