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Old 01-11-2011, 19:03   #31
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Re: Two Anchors ?

Another thing I do sometimes in lesser storms is just lower the main anchor down nearish the mooring so it is on the bottom with a bite just in case I need it if the mooring drags or something parts. I have seen too many moorings drag or fail in a big storm.
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Old 01-11-2011, 19:08   #32
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Re: Two Anchors ?

I was on a 400# during Irene, dragged about 30', I tied stern to the wind.
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Old 01-11-2011, 19:13   #33
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Re: Two Anchors ?

A Morgan OI 41 dragged a two-ton mooring block ashore near me during Hurricane Bob.
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Old 28-12-2011, 14:09   #34
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Re: Two Anchors ?

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
Another thing I do sometimes in lesser storms is just lower the main anchor down nearish the mooring so it is on the bottom with a bite just in case I need it if the mooring drags or something parts. I have seen too many moorings drag or fail in a big storm.
I did this - once. It took the mooring guy to haul the tangled mess onto his deck, and I felt plenty sheepish.

One New Zealand-made Rocna has done it for me in anchorages that always include 180º swings. Maybe (maybe) If I were thoroughly cowed by conditions, I might carry out another anchor to make a very wide V. Many sailors do that, but so much can go wrong. I think I'd rather stay awake, and be ready with the engine.
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Old 28-12-2011, 16:02   #35
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Re: Two Anchors ?

Sure, you can get tangles using two or more anchors, but my basic philosophy is that it is best to not drag anchor in the first place--I can always sort out the problems later. Plus, you can learn techniques that will minimize the hassles and prevent most of the problems. Two anchors aren't problem free, but they can help you to avoid worse problems.
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Old 28-12-2011, 16:29   #36
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Here is the Jedi 99% anchoring rule: in 99% of all cases, anchor using one single anchor. If that anchor does not hold your boat, you need a bigger anchor, not a second anchor.

This rule has been tested and proven all the way up to 120 knots sustained wind cat5 hurricane.

cheers,
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Old 28-12-2011, 16:31   #37
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A 2 tons concrete block only weighs 800 pounds submerged. How can that ever be enough during a storm?! Even a Rocna outperforms that.

ciao!
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Old 28-12-2011, 16:39   #38
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Re: Two Anchors ?

Sure Nick if you are anchoring in places without reversing currents, without limits on anchoring room, without obstacles to avoid, without other boats on two anchors or on moorings, etc. When I'm in an appropriate anchorage where I can let out the scope I want, where there is plenty of room, where I don't have to worry about reversing currents, I use one anchor. Even if your one huge anchor holds you can get into big problems in certain situations. I was anchored in Swansboro one time when the wind was howling in the exact opposite direction to a very strong current. During a lull the boat would ride to the current, but then the wind would build and gradually move the boat up current over the anchor until the current would take over and send the boat wildly back downwind. The motion below was like being on the end of a "crack the whip" in ice skating--you couldn't stand up the boat would come to a stop so violently at the end of the run. Anchor wasn't moving, but we weren't happy. Two anchors solved the problem.
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Old 28-12-2011, 18:37   #39
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Re: Two Anchors ?

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
Sure Nick if you are anchoring in places without reversing currents, without limits on anchoring room, without obstacles to avoid, without other boats on two anchors or on moorings, etc. When I'm in an appropriate anchorage where I can let out the scope I want, where there is plenty of room, where I don't have to worry about reversing currents, I use one anchor. Even if your one huge anchor holds you can get into big problems in certain situations. I was anchored in Swansboro one time when the wind was howling in the exact opposite direction to a very strong current. During a lull the boat would ride to the current, but then the wind would build and gradually move the boat up current over the anchor until the current would take over and send the boat wildly back downwind. The motion below was like being on the end of a "crack the whip" in ice skating--you couldn't stand up the boat would come to a stop so violently at the end of the run. Anchor wasn't moving, but we weren't happy. Two anchors solved the problem.
The thing Nick said was 99% of time cruisers are best relying on single large for the vessel, good anchor. This is the general rule.

In specific anchorages with specific issues as you indicate, lots of vessels crowded, currents, you are farmilar and practised with the techniques, big blow coming using 2 anchors could be considered.

Most would however consider preferably going up anchor size.

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Old 28-12-2011, 18:40   #40
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Re: Two Anchors ?

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
Sure Nick if you are anchoring in places without reversing currents, without limits on anchoring room, without obstacles to avoid, without other boats on two anchors or on moorings, etc. When I'm in an appropriate anchorage where I can let out the scope I want, where there is plenty of room, where I don't have to worry about reversing currents, I use one anchor. Even if your one huge anchor holds you can get into big problems in certain situations. I was anchored in Swansboro one time when the wind was howling in the exact opposite direction to a very strong current. During a lull the boat would ride to the current, but then the wind would build and gradually move the boat up current over the anchor until the current would take over and send the boat wildly back downwind. The motion below was like being on the end of a "crack the whip" in ice skating--you couldn't stand up the boat would come to a stop so violently at the end of the run. Anchor wasn't moving, but we weren't happy. Two anchors solved the problem.
Notice that the Jedi Rule isn't that you should NEVER resort to a second anchor. It's just that you should use a single anchor 99% of the time.

The Reformed Jedi Rule, to which I personally subscribe, promotes the use of a second anchor 2% of the time.

We Reformed Jedi are quite liberal about such matters, even though, in practice, most of us actually use a single anchor at least 99% of the time.
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Old 28-12-2011, 18:51   #41
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Yes there are reasons to use two anchors, which is the 1% I left open. Note however that a primary anchor that is too small is never a good reason.

Tidal currents is about the full one percent left. A Bahamian moor technique is the way to go here, with both anchors deployed from the bow, lots of info available.

A busy anchorage is not a reason to use two anchors. If a 3:1 scope is not possible with the anchor, buy a bigger (or better holding) anchor. If it is too close with 3:1 scope, the anchorage is unfit for use. We normally anchor further out in that case, in deeper water, or find another anchorage.

I can't think of a good reason for 2 anchors with 2 rodes during a storm. If somebody does, please post it here What I know is that one will start dragging and it will take the other out in a tangled mess that prevents re-anchoring.

If we are talking about hurricane force storms, there is time to prepare and do better than deploy two anchors.

cheers,
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Old 28-12-2011, 19:32   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash

Notice that the Jedi Rule isn't that you should NEVER resort to a second anchor. It's just that you should use a single anchor 99% of the time.

The Reformed Jedi Rule, to which I personally subscribe, promotes the use of a second anchor 2% of the time.

We Reformed Jedi are quite liberal about such matters, even though, in practice, most of us actually use a single anchor at least 99% of the time.
Let me see, how many hulls does your boat have? Only one? Than you can't be a dark Jedi so indeed must be a Reformed one

But joking aside, let me tell all the new cruisers out there: please take this advice as it is about the most important aspect of cruising... get a real good, real big anchor. Get at least 120' of good chain. Get a windlass even with a 30' boat. Get a chain stopper (saved Jedi during hurricane Ivan). Practice setting that anchor again and again. When it is blowing 25 knots and your boat stays put while others start dragging or show fearful white faces while checking their anchors, start your engine, haul that anchor up and practice manouvering and anchoring again... it's different with a fresh breeze, master this.... because being at anchor is how you spend 90% or more of your time and it is when many, many tragedies occur when gear or techniques fail. If there is one thing to get right, this is it. One big anchor is right. The other anchors are for ifferent situations, not to help the primary anchor to cope with the load.

When it's blowing 35-50 knots at anchor, we are at anchor watch to fend dragging boats off. When it's cleared up in front of us (!!!), I go out with the dinghy to help/rescue others. Not many do that, let me see.... in 10 years in the Caribbean I met maybe 5 people doing the same during those conditions. Afterwards I go back to Jedi, put on dry clothes and drink coffee my wife brewed while I was gone and we sit in the pilothouse and I tell the same old stories about bent anchors, tangled nests of anchors/rodes, inoperable or non-existent windlasses, who did stay put, etc. and we go back to bed and sleep well with the wind still howling. We can do all that because we are absolutely sure that our anchor will hold.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 28-12-2011, 19:59   #43
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Re: Two Anchors ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Yes there are reasons to use two anchors, which is the 1% I left open. Note however that a primary anchor that is too small is never a good reason.

Tidal currents is about the full one percent left. A Bahamian moor technique is the way to go here, with both anchors deployed from the bow, lots of info available.

A busy anchorage is not a reason to use two anchors. If a 3:1 scope is not possible with the anchor, buy a bigger (or better holding) anchor. If it is too close with 3:1 scope, the anchorage is unfit for use. We normally anchor further out in that case, in deeper water, or find another anchorage.

I can't think of a good reason for 2 anchors with 2 rodes during a storm. If somebody does, please post it here What I know is that one will start dragging and it will take the other out in a tangled mess that prevents re-anchoring.

If we are talking about hurricane force storms, there is time to prepare and do better than deploy two anchors.

cheers,
Nick.

I'm with you Nick. Two anchors off the bow are to be avoided whenever possible. If it really starts to blow like stink, I'd put out a tandem anchor before a Bahamian moor. A bahamian moor can turn into a mess even if one does not pull free. With reversing tides both rodes most often turn into a corkscrewed mess.
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Old 28-12-2011, 20:08   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker

I'm with you Nick. Two anchors off the bow are to be avoided whenever possible. If it really starts to blow like stink, I'd put out a tandem anchor before a Bahamian moor. A bahamian moor can turn into a mess even if one does not pull free. With reversing tides both rodes most often turn into a corkscrewed mess.
I have not anchored on reversing tides that often... I think Key West in 2003 was the last time But I think you can somewhat control the wraps of the rodes by adjusting the rudder position to turn the other direction every other day or something. With a lot of wind this doesn't work and you will have to untangle it every day. I found it pretty miserable in Key West.

A tandem anchor is one anchor helping the other share the load... violates the original 99% rule but not the more relaxed variants

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Old 28-12-2011, 22:25   #45
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Re: Two Anchors ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
But joking aside, let me tell all the new cruisers out there: please take this advice as it is about the most important aspect of cruising... get a real good, real big anchor. Get at least 120' of good chain. Get a windlass even with a 30' boat. Get a chain stopper (saved Jedi during hurricane Ivan). Practice setting that anchor again and again. When it is blowing 25 knots and your boat stays put while others start dragging or show fearful white faces while checking their anchors, start your engine, haul that anchor up and practice manouvering and anchoring again... it's different with a fresh breeze, master this.... because being at anchor is how you spend 90% or more of your time and it is when many, many tragedies occur when gear or techniques fail. If there is one thing to get right, this is it. One big anchor is right. The other anchors are for ifferent situations, not to help the primary anchor to cope with the load.


are at anchor watch to fend dragging boats off. When it's cleared up in front of us (!!!), I go out with the dinghy to help/rescue others. Not many do that, let me see.... in 10 years in the Caribbean I met maybe 5 people doing the same during those conditions. Afterwards I go back to Jedi, put on dry clothes and drink coffee my wife brewed while I was gone and we sit in the pilothouse and I tell the same old stories about bent anchors, tangled nests of anchors/rodes, inoperable or non-existent windlasses, who did stay put, etc. and we go back to bed and sleep well with the wind still howling. We can do all that because we are absolutely sure that our anchor will hold.

cheers,
Nick.
Very good advise for beginners starting out.

Over the years the number of vessels lost, damaged at anchor is enormous and one of the big issues for insurance companies with vessel often lost.

Anchor gear should be a number 1 priority for all cruising vessels.

cheers
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