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Old 17-02-2015, 14:23   #136
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Re: True blue water boat extinction a fait accompli?

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post


Yes, I can certainly say that there are production boat designs built today that are safe, comfortable and "BWB". Safer and more comfortable than the designs you are stuck on for several reasons - including stability and strength.


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No doubt about that, I am sure there are. As a matter fact, I read and saw drawing of a boat Bob Perry is working on, new Full keel carbon fiber boat for a customer. I cannot imagine the cost. Had I won the 500million the other night I might have a better idea.

What boats do you consider BWB besides hinckley?

I would go for a Cape George cutter or BCC 28 which can still be had brand new, starting around $300k.

My reality is that I cannot afford a brand new boat of any kind really. A production boat,new Catalina 31, is like 150K, way beyond my means. I am not stuck on any boat design really but I did some reading and a little research. What I did was chose an older boat of a design, that I read and was proven, to get me places in most conditions, as long as I could handle it. Honestly, I wanted a Westsail 32, could not afford it. After seeing the video of that boat on youtube riding out the perfect storm, one would have a hard time arguing that that boat was/is a safe ride when the poop hit the fan, it has everything needed....just flat out could not afford it.
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Old 17-02-2015, 14:31   #137
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Re: True blue water boat extinction a fait accompli?

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The OP is talking nonsense! And maybe reading it in books, too. There are more folks cruising greater distances in more different boats than ever before. <snip>

The reason lots of people cruise old boats is that they can be incredibly cost effective, not because they are necessarily better blue water boats. Just a better bang for the buck. But people make extraordinary claims to justify their choices and decisions.
Well said.

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Old 17-02-2015, 22:04   #138
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Re: True blue water boat extinction a fait accompli?

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Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
If you look at the boats people are really cruising with, and you ask them their preferemces, you'll likely start to get a picture of the most desirable qualities in a "bluewater boat."
An interesting thing is that you'll get a very different picture depending on the native tongue of the people you ask...

Ask the French what their ultimate BWB is, and they'll present you with an RM, and Allures, or if they're of a more conservative bend, an OVNI... It they want to go extreme they'll propose a Boreal.
All boats that in nothing look like the image many people here seem to have of what makes a proper BWB.

It's also quite interesting to see what kinds of boats yacht designers themselves are sailing. Often they sail designs that are even more "extreme" then what they design for the big yards.
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Old 17-02-2015, 22:31   #139
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Re: True blue water boat extinction a fait accompli?

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I wanted a Westsail 32, could not afford it. ....just flat out could not afford it.

you didnt look hard enough, there are a number of W32 being re-claimed by the water that surrounds them..
there happens to be one just a few boats down from me that somebody decided to do a re-fit on and pulled the mast and bought new hardware and then the guys family took him off the boat and put him in a home..
Its up for sale for 5k.. and its a project boat.. probably be pulled in a year or so, stripped, cut up and put in a dumpster....
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Old 17-02-2015, 22:44   #140
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Re: True blue water boat extinction a fait accompli?

Just thought I would mention that Hans Christian is still building full keel, heavy displacement boats.


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Old 18-02-2015, 01:28   #141
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Re: True blue water boat extinction a fait accompli?

The size of cruising sail boats has increased during the decades. In the past typical blue water boat was around 30', now most are 40' and over. The size of the boat affects the seaworthiness more than any other factor. So IMHO smaller boats choose full keel etc, bigger one doesn't matter so much..
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Old 18-02-2015, 06:42   #142
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Re: True blue water boat extinction a fait accompli?

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What boats do you consider BWB besides hinckley?
I'm cruising around in a catamaran - you won't like, or agree with, any of my answers to that question.

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Old 18-02-2015, 06:48   #143
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Re: True blue water boat extinction a fait accompli?

My guess is that 90+% of people asking about a BWB is asking the wrong question really. That's because they don't need one and what they should be asking is about what boats make good cruisers.

I think the BTB question more about a way to justify your boat choice when it was:
1 - an older boat that you really got because of the lower boat price
2 - an expensive boat when you really got it to be fancy and "nice" but needed to justify it in your mind

That leaves the "production boats" in the middle to be attacked be they people who got boats 1 or 2.
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Old 18-02-2015, 06:56   #144
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Re: True blue water boat extinction a fait accompli?

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My guess is that 90+% of people asking about a BWB is asking the wrong question really. That's because they don't need one and what they should be asking is about what boats make good cruisers.

I think the BTB question more about a way to justify your boat choice when it was:
1 - an older boat that you really got because of the lower boat price
2 - an expensive boat when you really got it to be fancy and "nice" but needed to justify it in your mind

That leaves the "production boats" in the middle to be attacked be they people who got boats 1 or 2.
Good Answer.
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Old 18-02-2015, 07:01   #145
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Re: True blue water boat extinction a fait accompli?

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
My guess is that 90+% of people asking about a BWB is asking the wrong question really. That's because they don't need one and what they should be asking is about what boats make good cruisers.

I think the BTB question more about a way to justify your boat choice when it was:
1 - an older boat that you really got because of the lower boat price
2 - an expensive boat when you really got it to be fancy and "nice" but needed to justify it in your mind

That leaves the "production boats" in the middle to be attacked be they people who got boats 1 or 2.
I think people who own old outdated design boats, like hammering home the BWB theme on forums as helps keep the market alive for their boats for when it's time to sell
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Old 18-02-2015, 07:20   #146
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Re: True blue water boat extinction a fait accompli?

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
My guess is that 90+% of people asking about a BWB is asking the wrong question really. That's because they don't need one and what they should be asking is about what boats make good cruisers.

I think the BTB question more about a way to justify your boat choice when it was:
1 - an older boat that you really got because of the lower boat price
2 - an expensive boat when you really got it to be fancy and "nice" but needed to justify it in your mind

That leaves the "production boats" in the middle to be attacked be they people who got boats 1 or 2.
I think this is actually quite true and perceptive.

I would only add to this, however, that it works both ways. I mean, that people in these mostly fairly stupid discussions tend to divide into camps according to how they justify their own choice of boat, which is not the way to actually learn anything.

So the passionate defenders of production boats are just imagining 90%+ of the "attacks" on their choice of boat. In the other 10% of cases, however, there is often a lot of personal choice justification going on, as Don described it.

I wish people could be more mature and stop dividing up into camps -- it does not lead to enlightenment.

This phrase is good: "[W]hat they should be asking is about what boats make good cruisers. . . "

Exactly. And the answer, of course, may be very different for different people.
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Old 18-02-2015, 07:58   #147
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Re: True blue water boat extinction a fait accompli?

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
My guess is that 90+% of people asking about a BWB is asking the wrong question really. That's because they don't need one and what they should be asking is about what boats make good cruisers.

I think the BTB question more about a way to justify your boat choice when it was:
1 - an older boat that you really got because of the lower boat price
2 - an expensive boat when you really got it to be fancy and "nice" but needed to justify it in your mind

That leaves the "production boats" in the middle to be attacked be they people who got boats 1 or 2.
somebody finally making some sense
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Old 18-02-2015, 08:16   #148
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Re: True blue water boat extinction a fait accompli?

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somebody finally making some sense

Certainly some common sense here but I believe that we all tend to believe our own bullshit and I mean believe it. The guys who think that heavy long keeled boats are best really believe it just the same as the guys who believe entry level production boats are their best choice, they believe it. The Cat guys are the same but they sometimes approach religion in their beliefs, lol. I don't think people try to justify what they have or what they can afford, I think they have convinced themselves and it is part of their belief system and do you know what....its what makes this forum entertaining, who would tune in here if everyone believed the same stuff.
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Old 18-02-2015, 08:19   #149
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Re: True blue water boat extinction a fait accompli?

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Certainly some common sense here but I believe that we all tend to believe our own bullshit and I mean believe it. The guys who think that heavy long keeled boats are best really believe it just the same as the guys who believe entry level production boats are their best choice, they believe it. The Cat guys are the same but they sometimes approach religion in their beliefs, lol. I don't think people try to justify what they have or what they can afford, I think they have convinced themselves and it is part of their belief system and do you know what....its what makes this forum entertaining, who would tune in here if everyone believed the same stuff.
I don't believe that.

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Old 18-02-2015, 08:24   #150
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Re: True blue water boat extinction a fait accompli?

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...just the same as the guys who believe entry level production boats are their best choice, they believe it.

I see what you did there, but who conflates production boats with "entry level"?


Like you said, it's sometimes difficult to hide one's own biases or preferences.
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