Trailerable blue-ocean: exists?

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by john61ct

The trend of trying to eliminate all risks is the worst to me. Human life is just not that precious, and to try make it too safe, there's just no life being lived anymore. Security is a complete illusion anyway, when my number comes up it's time to go.

Yikes! well if that is the case may I recommend:
VENTURE 2-24 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

If you can circumnavigate with that one you'll be in the record books.

[john61ct]

I don't mean to say I'll throw my life away for no reason, just that everything is relative, and my tolerance of discomfort is higher than most and I am less risk averse than most.

The "bigger is safer" "more comfortable is safer" etc mantras may be true at the margins, but that doesn't mean I'm only going to look at 40' boats like many *today* state is the minimum.

[john61ct]

I should make clear that circumnavigation is not the goal here, nothing to do with going to Hawaii.

Just that I want - within a 8'5" beam - a boat with those kind of bones, safety, build quality, relative comfort in heavy weather, gentler motion and more comfortable ride, ease of sailing on the helm, 'seakindliness' is a nice word for it.

that **could** be upfitted go on an offshore leg if I wanted to one day.

________
And now for something completely different

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=4090

Sail Area/Disp = 22.5 !

Drop your 90hp outboard and away you go at 20 knots!

Yes ugly, snickers from the Yacht Club set, but wow, talk about interior livability, floating RV meant as a compliment.

[jbbacque]

John61, there have been a couple of nudges towards the Farrier/Corsair tris in your thread, but I feel the need to nudge again... I don't see any of your core reqs violated, and, having sailed and cruised one, two, and now three hulls, I have come to feel the more the merrier (though four does seem excessive:-). Mine is not (yet) trans-oceanic blue-water passage experience (though crewing uncle's Formosa 51 through the Med in a blow came close...), but as mentioned by others, large and small F-boats have been crossing oceans for decades, both cruising and racing. For eg, I believe the F-31 is the only boat ever to have circled the North Pole under sail (couple of crazy Nordic guys, they made a decent documentary... goog it). Yes, and Race2Alaska, Governor's Cup, Transpacs, many, many more...

Some points:
- you really have to sail on an F-boat to understand. Seriously. Get a ride, before you decide.

- if you also have crew to keep happy (I have First Mate, FM) you really, really, have to get a ride.

- we bought F-31 #001 three years ago after considering reqs very similar to yours.

- I can raise the mast, launch, sail, retrieve, drop the stick and tow away all single-handed. I'm 56, 147lbs, 6', and no he-man. With FM's help, everything is faster and easier, but it is all doable solo. Cost? Zero. Slickly engineered systems? Priceless.

- towing: "design/mfg-plate" weight is 2800lbs, but realistically it is a ~5000lb package, all-up. We have a lightweight dual-axle Trailex aluminum trailer. Just got a 2008 Diesel Grand Cherokee to do the pulling to Florida, a sub $10k (CDN$!) tow vehicle.

- all of F9, F31, F32, and F33 are inside your width-limit, and "X" versions that are 9'6" are also available if a trip-permit or rule-bend is allowed. F-36, F-39 bust the width, but would I think be fantastic ocean boats, even if not so roadworthy...

- while I've yet to see how wet the F-31 will be in true-blue water (first taste for us will be stream-cross and Bahamas Feb 2018, though our boat has been to Guatemala and back in the '90s, long before we came along...) I have been plenty wet and uncomfortable in small monos bashing upwind. Newer F32/33 have improved folding arm design and bigger floats to reduce the spray that we'll see in the F-31.

- these boats simply don't sink. Even when you hit the submerged container at 15 knots. Vacuum-bagged foam core, crash-boxes, multiple water-tight compartments - you are basically sailing a very comfortable life-raft. FM likes this feature.

- fast can be a lot safer than slow in many cases. In an F-boat (or other light, fast trailerable multi-hull, maybe a Dragonfly?). Weather-windows can be smaller, there is less time out there exposed to random weather variation.

- the importance of a stable, ~level ride should not be underestimated, IMHO. FM is absolutely delighted with the F-31 after having sailed and cruised many years with me on various monos and cats. Performance and heavy-weather handling does not come at the expense of a comfortable ride in these boats.

There are tradeoffs:
- Capacity/space: you really don't want to overload an F-boat. So you need something of decent size (like 31-33) to handle the cruising kit. We sailed on an F27 before deciding we needed bigger, but lots of 27s have crossed many oceans. Interiors much smaller for same LOA as a mono, hulls are especially skinny at the water line.

- purchase price is up there. But these Fboats seem to hold value. Your_cost cost = buy - sell.

- scarcity: Compared to a suitable mono, it might take you a while to find the perfect F-boat, especially if you have a tight budget like us. If you are made of money, you can order up either production (F-33) or full-custom carbon rocketships that easily tick all the boxes. For us it was literally several years of watching, waiting, until a suitable boat descended into our price range.

- safety (some might think this a negative): While I think it ~impossible to find something safer than a boat made mostly of closed-cell foam, there are those who fear flipping such beasts. One does need to pay attention. It is possible to fly too much sail in too big a wind, and turtle a tri or cat. But this is in my control. So, reef the sails. Boat lies hove-to or ahull, or apparently runs under poles just fine in big weather, if it comes to that. One of the reasons there is (an irrational? IMHO) fear of multi-flipping over mono-sinking is that when monos sink, you often don't hear about it. When multis flip and the crews are rescued, there are pictures that can be taken and it makes the news. I wonder what the stats really are...

I heartily encourage folk to try a ride on a tri.

We just lost designer Ian Farrier, a great loss, but Corsair, and both Farrier Marine and Multihulls Direct are strong businesses with good order backlogs for new boats, parts etc. There is an extremely helpful and active yahoo discussion group ("F-boat", also older/less active/moderated "F-boats").

I offer free rides to anyone in the Ottawa, Canada area, maybe Georgian Bay/North Channel next summer, and we'll be in Florida/Bahamas in February/March 2018, and happy to entertain. If those locales/times don't suit, there are a lot of friendly Farrier-folk on the Fboat yahoo group, open to all (link below).

I suppose you might call us converts. If anyone wants to try a tri, and you are around northern Bahamas Feb/March, drop a note to j_b_bacque_at_gmail_dot_com, (underscores omitted).
cheers,
ben

PS: I have donned my flame-retardant suit in preparation for the war I may have unwittingly started in this, my first post here, in what I now see is a monohull thread. Please be gentle, I realise there are a lot of mono-sailors out there, and all with good reasons!

PPS: No affiliation to any of:
Trimaran and Catamaran Designs By Farrier Marine, Inc.
MULTIHULLS DIRECT - Home
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/F-boat/info (Ian's site)
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/F-Boats/info (legacy Corsair Marine site)

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by john61ct

And now for something completely different

MACGREGOR 26X sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Sail Area/Disp = 22.5 !

Drop your 90hp outboard and away you go at 20 knots!

Yes ugly, snickers from the Yacht Club set, but wow, talk about interior livability, floating RV meant as a compliment.

There is a guy here with one of those, I have seen him out at the islands here. He seems very happy with it. He doesn't even need a dinghy, he just pulls the boat right up to the beach! To each his own, but to me it is more of a speed boat with a really tall flag pole.

[double u]

"Look at the circumnavigators of the past and what boats they sailed"
yes & no!
the world has made progress during the last 30-40 years, the world of boating & bluewatersailing too

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Don C L

There is a guy here with one of those, I have seen him out at the islands here. He seems very happy with it. He doesn't even need a dinghy, he just pulls the boat right up to the beach! To each his own, but to me it is more of a speed boat with a really tall flag pole.

Does sail fast, just not elegantly 8-)

In reading up on it further, very much "one of these things is not like the others". Not strongly built at all for the rough stuff.

Cool concept though.

A bit more in line: Tide 28 (Harley Racing Yachts) but seems maybe they only made a few

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by jbbacque

three hulls

You've laid out a really great case I've only now taken the time to begin to absorb, thanks very much for a very thoughtful post.

I will definitely expand my research to multi's as I narrow things down, but the more expensive options will be farther down the priority list, simply because that factor will add some years to the wait.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by newhaul

MORC boats.
( midget ocean racing class ) for offshore racing single or double handed. Back before the cca rules.

From my further reading, it seems that MORC came after CCA, in fact was a bit of a corrective toward many factors important to me.

Are the centre-board keel ones inherently less safe-robust compared to full ballasted ones?

And what about seakindliness, relative comfort in heavy weather?

Lots of new candidates are coming up looking at MORC lists, but since the build-quality issue is foremost for me, should I just stick to the ones that have already surfaced here?

Or should I be open to lots of them, and rely on a good surveyor to flag sub-par instances major structural problems?

[jbbacque]

Hey JohnCT, I have someone else to thank for pointing me to Farrier Tris in the first place, so you are very welcome and I simply pass along the favour.

I am quite serious about having to sail on one, though, especially in a bit of wind, before making a decision to the contrary. You just won't know what you are missing, and might find out too late. It reminded me of the excitement I felt long ago when first getting a windsurfer to seriously plane and foot-steer... it just picks itself up and takes off... and you don't even spill your beer.

If you want to get a ride, there is no better way than
a) asking me if you are in Ottawa, or Bahamas this Feb.
b) just approaching anyone you see who has one.
c) join the F-boat yahoo group and ask if there is someone in your area.

Cheers, good luck, fair winds,
ben

[john61ct]

Very much appreciate the offer, and when current family commitments ease up I may well be in touch!

[JeffH]

Originally Posted by john61ct

To expand on the rationale for trailerability. First, a repeat from above

I have access to a few different places ...

I also have circumstances, ...

If I am very far from home when duty calls, I want ...

If I am stateside when duty calls, ...

I don't currently have plans to trace Magellan's paths, ....

And I won't be able to afford much trading up/....

Based on these requirements, the only kind of boat for you is one that will fit inside a standard cargo container. Add a properly engineered & properly built cradle (with a base that fits snugly, as in fills the inside of the container) & Bob’ your uncle.

[john61ct]

Someone brought up Rhodes Meridian 25

Which led me to this bargain basement O'Day, Outlaw 26, also a Rhodes

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1964...s#.Wp4JB8tOl-E

comments? other than wow big project 8-)

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Someone brought up Rhodes Meridian 25

Which led me to this bargain basement O'Day, Outlaw 26, also a Rhodes

1964 O'Day 26 Outlaw Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

comments? other than wow big project 8-)

That boat is a lot like the Pearson Commander which was also meant to be a daysailer that could also be good for overnighting. I'm sure lesser boats have crossed oceans but I'd probably want to add a hard dodger to cover over some of the large cockpit. Stowage will also be a challenge. I am not sure about the build quality of the old O'Days, (probably very good) but the design is certainly one with an eye to sea-worthiness. A Pearson Ariel might be a better option in 26' although I really like the depth of the keel and longer waterline in the Rhodes design. Like most of the boats considered here, it'll be a wet ride at times and the large cockpit of a daysailer design can hold a lot of seawater.
A Rhodes Ranger is a better choice I think, but the Columbia 29 is still a bit better given your goals and constraints.

[406Columbia]

Originally Posted by Don C L

That boat is a lot like the Pearson Commander which was also meant to be a daysailer that could also be good for overnighting. I'm sure lesser boats have crossed oceans but I'd probably want to add a hard dodger to cover over some of the large cockpit. Stowage will also be a challenge. I am not sure about the build quality of the old O'Days, (probably very good) but the design is certainly one with an eye to sea-worthiness. A Pearson Ariel might be a better option in 26' although I really like the depth of the keel and longer waterline in the Rhodes design. Like most of the boats considered here, it'll be a wet ride at times and the large cockpit of a daysailer design can hold a lot of seawater.
A Rhodes Ranger is a better choice I think, but the Columbia 29 is still a bit better given your goals and constraints.

Don,

I think the Columbia 29 or a Pearson Triton would both be excellent options. Actually that Triton in Canada needs a new home, any takers? lol