Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 31-12-2008, 15:41   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6
Total newb need a few pointers...

So, here's the plan. My contract in CA is ending in May, at which point I hope to return to the GA coast and refurbish a 1971, 22 ft Morgan (model unknown, but available) slip-keel that's been in the family backyard for about a decade. Sails are in good condition and the boat is watertight, but that's all I know. I want to sail this boat south, into the Gulf, and maybe even through the Canal to the Pacific side with an ultimate goal of Costa Rica/Nicaragua.
Admittedly, I know nothing about sailing. I've been on boats irregularly all my life, with fishermen on both sides, but nobody sails. This means I need lessons, among other things, in both sailing and boat care/maintenance. I'm a very, very hard worker when it comes to passions, and this plan is one of them. I'm working on a tight budget, so used/refurb parts would probably be the way to go, at least for now, as much as possible, and I'm very willing to work for sailing lessons. Anyway, I just want to know where the best place to start is, both in terms of making the boat seaworthy (useful, not pretty) and learning to sail in such a way that this trip could be made, reasonably. Please be honest; I have no ego attached to this, only hopes. Thanks, and happy holidays!!!
__________________

__________________
Gulfcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2008, 16:19   #2
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
Here we go again...( there always seems to be a thread going about this topic and it usually starts feuds )

Untill I signed up to these forums I had know Idea there were so many adventures wanting to sail off into the sunset with such small budgets, zero experiance and on such small boats...

Can it be done yes...
Is your choice a good one? not for me... but maybe OK for you..You are thinking corect about getting on water lessons and also get some navigation and general seamanship training so you know how to read buoys, ships running lights ,charts, GPS ..etc.

Have someone who ownes a boat to look yours over and make suggestions about getting it in the water and sailing...then you will begin to learn about its quirks and limitations about being the right boat for your intended purpose..

Your lessons will more then likly get you eventually out on a 30+ foot boat and you will have a chance to compare handeling, build quality, systems and comfort motions of both animals and also your instructor will/should have a lot of experiance to offer.
__________________

__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2008, 16:30   #3
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pblais's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,700
Images: 15
Send a message via Skype™ to Pblais
Quote:
I hope to return to the GA coast and refurbish a 1971, 22 ft Morgan (model unknown, but available) slip-keel that's been in the family backyard for about a decade.
That part makes sense.

Quote:
I want to sail this boat south, into the Gulf, and maybe even through the Canal to the Pacific side with an ultimate goal of Costa Rica/Nicaragua.
They won't let a boat this small or this slow into the canal. Trucking it would be cheaper. I would cheap out and just truck it.

Quote:
Admittedly, I know nothing about sailing.
Seems like the perfect point to start from. You don't have any bad habits started so you can learn all this sailing stuff fresh and get it right the first time. I would start with some sailing lessons taken from some place close. Does not have to be on the ocean. Could be on a fresh water lake and maybe on someone else's boat. Meet some sailing people. Meeting people means you can meet more people. After a while you can be a sailing person and can start to work for and look for better opportunities. Someone offers a ride and next thing you have just a little experience and suddenly it's more experience. You offer to crew on someones boat and have a great time and suddenly you do more.

I think you need to work up to crossing the Gulf of Mexico. You just can't go from knowing nothing to knowing almost nothing and never doing anything to doing it all. You can start now as you have some resources and a possible boat.

If you really want to take up a serious sailing adventures you can at least start to learn how. Learning how means you can learn more. In between mastering sailing you just have a lot of other technical areas to cover. You also need to raise some money so you can have some of your own gear. A quick trip through most of the forum sections here will turn up enough topics that actually do matter that will take you a while to master. Some things you just keep working on as long as you are active in sailing.

Quote:
Please be honest; I have no ego attached to this, only hopes.
You really can get started. You could have a lot of fun from the very first day if you tried. Start with the things that are close at hand. Find some place to take some lessons, find a place near by to launch this boat. Sail it for a few hours a day as much as time permits.

I saw some numbers the other day that estimates it takes about 8,000 hours to get good at something. I'm talking really good not just knowing a little bit. It takes a while to connect all the different skills to a level where simple things are automatic and complex skills can be worked out while doing the simple skills. Sailing requires the management of all the systems on the boat, plus all the controls on the boat, while assessing the weather and navigation. It's planning everything to a fine level of detail and making the required adjustments all at the same time things are changing.

Getting to the level of being able to sail in the open ocean in a boat this small is something you need to get some experience with on a bigger boat where someone else is in command. You need some time on bigger water for the experience of a multiple day trip.

If you kept your destinations closer to shore you might be able to get good enough to do some coastal hopping. That could be a realistic goal you could reach and obtain. Open ocean sailing in this boat really is not in the cards. If you acquired the skills required you would understand completely why that is. If you acquired all the skills you could also figure out the better way to really do it.

Dreaming and wanting to do it make no progress toward being successfully. Preparing to be successful is the process to be successful. It means you are really doing it from the first day. It can be a whole lot of fun all along the way too. If you are learning and having a lot of fun at the same time you could spend the rest of your life sailing. That is my goal. I want a whole lifetime of sailing.
__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
Pblais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2008, 17:48   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6
Awesome. I'm obviously going to have to re-evaluate my time period. I rather thought it was unlikely that I'd get everything done in as short a time as I'd thought, but there's no time like the present for getting started. I'll keep scouring the boards for useful info, although I'm so inexperienced I feel I won't even know it when I see it. Thanks again, though!!
__________________
Gulfcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2008, 18:22   #5
Registered User
 
Tempest245's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Piscataway, NJ
Boat: 34 Sabre Tempest
Posts: 937
Paul, Excellent Guidance!

The 10,000 hours is coming from a new book by Malcolm Gladwell called Outliers . ( The story of Success). Gladwell concludes that it takes 10,000 hours of focused practice at a craft to be in position to be successful..

10,000 hours...is about 3 1/2 years, of 8 hour days, 7 days a week....OR
22 years at ....500 hours per year...

The Beatles had put in their 10,000 before arriving in the US....and they only got better after that.

I got this sailing bug forty years ago and have been doing it ever since. At this point, the knowledge that still don't have, FAR exceeds the knowledge I have.

You are absolutely correct! There is a lifetime of learning to be had...I've been poking around this forum for a few months now and it has been a great learning experience!

Gulfcoaster, welcome to sailing! To quote a tired phrase...every journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step....Take lessons, sign on as crew, read everything you can and get out on the water....you'll know what you don't know once you start..and I think you'll find that most sailors freely share their knowledge.
If Money is tight and lessons cost too much...hook up with a skipper who is looking for crew and is willing to teach someone.

Best of Luck..

Tempest
__________________
Tempest245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2008, 19:21   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6
Again, thanks! I'm very, very aware of the daunting nature of the task ahead of me, although 10,000 hours was about 9,000 more than I'd anticipated I can't wait to get this project underway; the hard part is going to be not quitting my job and moving directly back to the coast.
__________________
Gulfcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2008, 20:07   #7
Registered User
 
DarkBlue's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 35
Send a message via Skype™ to DarkBlue
Someone said:
"Twenty years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than those you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the wind in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
Mark Twain
__________________
DarkBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2008, 21:01   #8
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
Shoooooot.... I made perfict babies after 15 minutes...
__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 05:58   #9
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulfcoaster View Post
Anyway, I just want to know where the best place to start is, both in terms of making the boat seaworthy (useful, not pretty) and learning to sail in such a way that this trip could be made, reasonably. Please be honest; I have no ego attached to this, only hopes. Thanks, and happy holidays!!!
Your trip is doable. Whether or not by you is another matter. and so is whether it would be any fun.

22 foot is small for both voyaging and for extended living - the same but different considerations for both.

To be honest although I think a cheap and low spec 22 foot boat is a great way to start, I think it is also the perfect boat for staying within 50 miles of "home". Not meant as a negative comment, remember - wherever "home" is in the world someone has probably sailed half way around the world to visit it and will form part of their trip of a lifetime ......so don't discount cruising in home waters just because it doesn't sound so exotic or challenging as a long voyage to distant shores - you will have plenty of opportunities to learn about your boat and yourself, whilst still having the ability to kill yourself from bad luck and / or bad judgement - just as much as if you were doing a longer voyage

Plusses to that approach is you are a bus ride (or car Journey) from home and resources - whether that be tools or freinds / family......or hot showers and a full sized bed for the odd weekend You can also plan your trip by car for suitable places to visit and the locals will speak english (sort of ) which makes sorting out any problems with the boat or seeking advice that much easier.

Also making this boat shipshape for local cruising (where you get to pick your weather a lot more) will be a lot easier, quicker and cheaper than for a more arduous trip involving offshore passages where weather becomes less choosable. Although I do not know the boat model (me in the UK) I would guess that at 22 foot it was designed for local cruising and whilst most anything can be up-specced for the trip you described IMO you would really be better off (esp. financially) with starting with a boat that is more suitable by design (even if it does involve refurbishing to spec, plus maybe a little bit) - and this will basically mean bigger (I would say a minimum of 26/27 foot - but 30 foot you would be getting into "Luxury" small ).

Whether you spend a month aboard the 22 footer or 6 months you will then be in a far better position than now to decide for yourself how feasible the longer voyage is for you - odds are heavily that you will realise that a bigger boat (even if only a couple of extra feet) would make your life so much more easier........and pleasant - after all enjoyment is part of the game .......and you won't have over spent on the 22 footer (when you sell she will still be a very old 22 footer with a limited market - whatever you do will have a negligible impact on her sale price, you will just be making her easier to sell - and making the next owner happy ).
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 06:47   #10
Registered User
 
Tempest245's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Piscataway, NJ
Boat: 34 Sabre Tempest
Posts: 937
StillRaining....Babies only take 5 minutes....what were you doing the other 10?
Practicing?
__________________
Tempest245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 07:56   #11
Registered User
 
Connemara's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Boat: Mirage 27 in Toronto; Wright 10 in Auckland
Posts: 671
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulfcoaster View Post
Again, thanks! I'm very, very aware of the daunting nature of the task ahead of me, although 10,000 hours was about 9,000 more than I'd anticipated I can't wait to get this project underway; the hard part is going to be not quitting my job and moving directly back to the coast.

Don't think anyone was suggesting you had to have the whole 10,000 hours before starting out on your trip. I would think your estimate is about right to start off. Then you keep learning.

I speak as one who's still on the low end of the 1,000.

Interestingly, the old British navy (in the hearts of oak days) used to have kids as junior officers (midshipmen) who essentially spent 24/7 learning how to handle a sailing ship. It usually took them three or four years before they could qualify to be a lieutenant. Probably adds up to the 10,000 hours without any trouble at all.

Mind you, some of that was gunnery, which we don't have much call for these days, and some was knowing how to ration the grog, which we do.


Connemara
__________________
Connemara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 08:59   #12
Registered User
 
S/V Illusion's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FLORIDA
Boat: Alden 50, Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 1,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest245 View Post



Gulfcoaster, welcome to sailing! To quote a tired phrase...every journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step....
Tempest
Not so tired.
How would a 20,000 mile journey begin?
__________________
S/V Illusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 09:53   #13
Registered User
 
Tempest245's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Piscataway, NJ
Boat: 34 Sabre Tempest
Posts: 937
Illusion....With a Steak Dinner and a good nights sleep? ;-)
__________________
Tempest245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 21:42   #14
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest245 View Post
StillRaining....Babies only take 5 minutes....what were you doing the other 10?
Practicing?
Mastering the strings....
__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 03:55   #15
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest245 View Post
StillRaining....Babies only take 5 minutes....what were you doing the other 10?
Practicing?
5 minutes? Did you do a sail change as well?

(You have a lucky wife )

Gulfcoaster - Paul speaks well and is one of our most experienced hands.

I will disagree that it takes 10,000 hours to get really good at something.

My wife was a perfect shopper right out of the box.

BTW - Good luck on the boat project. I am sure if you devote time, pasion, energy and more than a few bucks you'll have a fun boat with which to do great adventures.

I will warn in advance that often the most expensive boats in the marina are the free ones.
__________________

__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
okay time for some work, need pointers scotty Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 21-07-2008 16:16
Newb from Vancouver BC Sapper Meets & Greets 3 10-07-2008 13:15
Need Advice: Newb looking to sail from Moss Landing, CA to Astoria, OR eclipse785 Pacific & South China Sea 17 27-12-2007 22:45
Hello from a total novice Stella Meets & Greets 10 18-07-2007 13:46
A Grounding, Total Loss Jim H General Sailing Forum 14 24-12-2005 09:57



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:27.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.