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Old 18-04-2017, 03:14   #1
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Too good to be true?

We're in Queensland, Australia and have started searching for monohull sailing boats to live aboard. Spotted this 2012 John Pugh 39ft Motor Sailer and wondering why it is only AU$45,000. Comparing it to other John Pugh boats of varying sizes and ages, it does seem to be a tad 'cheap'.

It is very nicely fitted out inside and seems to present well. We are looking at a sailing vessel we can eventually take in blue water. We are noobs.

Used John Pugh 39 Motor Sailer for Sale | Yachts For Sale | Yachthub

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 18-04-2017, 04:50   #2
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Re: Too good to be true?

Home built boats vary in quality considerably. It seems to me it was built on a limited budget.

One thing that didn't look too great was the wiring, from what I could see from a couple photo's. It also seems it may be a little under powered with a 23hp diesel for a 39 foot boat.

If your serious about it, make sure you get it surveyed by someone experienced with steel boats.
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Old 18-04-2017, 04:55   #3
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Re: Too good to be true?

Okay right, thanks. Yes we'd definitely get it surveyed before offering.
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Old 18-04-2017, 05:04   #4
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Re: Too good to be true?

I am sure you are familiar with the saying: “If it is too good to be true, it usually is”,
I must say the $45k price tag (and still being an asking price!) is not really too good to be true.
Can I assume that that this boat is home built? I have never seen a professionally built Pugh boat.
That may be one reason why the price is reasonable.

The second reason some Pugh designs are regarded by some as motorsailers, but if you are not in hurry, that is not really a disadvantage. Just not sailing fast or close to the wind.

Another reason of the price is that it is a steel boat, and while steel boats are easy for the home builder it may not be the best material (says me who likes many ferro designs……). Although the pictures do not show any rust, it certainly will come when maintenance standards drop.

I noted in your previous thread you guys are scuba divers/photographers/filmers.
This Pugh boat does not have a swim platform but the large transom (the back of the boat) could easily accommodate a large hinging one.

I do not know that model Kubota engine but the boat being from 2012, the engine looks a lot older. And with 23 HP it may be a little underpowered. I would have thought (without checking) such boat could benefit from an engine nearly twice that size.

The other expense I can see is mainsail, although initially you might be happy to find a 2nd hand one for a few hundreds dollars.

I just love the saloon table!!!
I understand this is your first foray into a sailing boats. Like girl/boyfriends: most people have more than one, before they settle.

Some other Pugh boats for sale:
Yachts & Boats for Sale Search Results | Yachthub

11.2m Steel Pugh Design yacht for sale - South West Boat Sales
John Pugh Centre Cockpit Sloop: Sailing Boats | Boats Online for Sale | Steel | Queensland (Qld) - Townsville Qld | Boats Online
John Pugh Fairwind 40: Sailing Boats | Boats Online for Sale | Steel | Queensland (Qld) - Brisbane Qld | Boats Online
John Pugh Motor Sailer Steel Bilge Keels: Sailing Boats | Boats Online for Sale | Steel 3mm Plate Steel. | Tasmania (Tas) - Royal Yacht Club Of Tasmania - Sandy Bay In Hobart. | Boats Online
and here is a comment on that exact boat?
John Pugh yacht designs - Boat Design Forums
and here some pointers to an owners group
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...hts-69816.html

And one could do similar searches for boats 36-39 ft: Roberts, Vanderstadt and in steel prices range from $15 to $70k. There is a smorgasbord out there. Enjoy the tastings!
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Old 18-04-2017, 05:17   #5
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Re: Too good to be true?

Oh thank you, so much food for thought there.

While we have settled on a monohull sailing vessel, we are ready to be guided as to good live aboards, with a stable and forgiving boat who we will feel secure in. Open to other hull materials except probably wood. Is it true that ferro hulls are difficult to get insured?
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Old 18-04-2017, 08:03   #6
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Re: Too good to be true?

Sounds like it needs a new main.

from the add
Sail Inventory: Temporary mainsail onboard, Furling Headsail
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Old 18-04-2017, 08:24   #7
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Re: Too good to be true?

You simply go there and have a look at the boat. This will often explain why the boat could be 'mispriced'. Your own eyes are a great demystification tool.

Her main is shot, her engine room is a mess, her winches are set humorously, and whatever happened to her rudder will be claimed to be an 'improvement on the original design'. Otherwise a boat is a boat is a boat. Looks clean and nice inside and if the problems are small then maybe you can put things aright and have a nice ship at a low price.

Let us know how it is all rolling out for you.

Cheers,
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Old 18-04-2017, 08:31   #8
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Re: Too good to be true?

I don't see anything particularly wrong with it, but the thing that jumps out to me is the stovetop is not cantilevered. As your intent is to go offshore, that will make cooking difficult. Also has no oven. You could probably cut out some cabinetry and install a cantilevered stove/oven.

It doesn't say much about running rigging, and only has 3 winches, plus the "temporary" main make me think it wasn't sailed much. Not necessarily a dealbreaker, but tells you you'll need to do some work to make sailing more manageable.

A 60L (15g) fuel tank is quite small for a motor sailer.
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Old 18-04-2017, 08:49   #9
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Re: Too good to be true?

I see the tiny (60 L) fuel tank as a warning not merely a correctable error. My question is what other basic design flaws are present. Perhaps I'm just too cynical but I would assume design/execution issues until proven otherwise.
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Old 18-04-2017, 13:13   #10
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Re: Too good to be true?

Might want to check to see what the boat type has actually sold for recently. One problem with comparing to other boats on the Internet is there are LOTS of left over boat ads that are years old and a LOT of the boats on the market have been there a long time. It does seem like a nice boat. If you visit the boat, please report back what you find.
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Old 18-04-2017, 13:25   #11
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Re: Too good to be true?

Thank you all, that is really good information. Not just for this boat, but for others that we look at. For instance, checking the engine and fuel tank is up to the job. And sails, winches etc.
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Old 18-04-2017, 13:52   #12
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Re: Too good to be true?

there's a disconnect here: the vessel is described as a motorsailor. Motorsailors are normally boats with low SA to D ratios and big engines. The small engine fitted will not provide good performance under power, and the sail plan will not provide good performance under sail.


I would strongly suggest that the builder didn't know what he was doing, and that you look further for your first boat.

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Old 18-04-2017, 13:55   #13
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Re: Too good to be true?

Thanks Jim. We will take your advice.
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Old 18-04-2017, 14:05   #14
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Re: Too good to be true?

A little underpowered? It's severely underpowered. Dangerously so.

As noted, there are numerous little cues that this was build by someone who did not know what they were doing (i.e. perhaps a great fabricator, but not a lot of big boat experience), was on a too-limited budget, or both.

It would probably be great as a weekend get-away boat, but for extended cruising? Nah.
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Old 18-04-2017, 14:27   #15
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Re: Too good to be true?

I think the engine is dangerously small. For that size of steel vessel a 60 Horsepower marine converted tractor motor with a decent marine gearbox, or a purpose built marine diesel engine such as a Perkins or Yanmar of about eighty horsepower would be OK. You said this is a MOTOR sailor--and that little motor is inadequate even got a fibreglass yacht of that length.
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