To Ketch or Not to Ketch

[Capt Phil]

Singlehanded my Transpac 49 ketch and found her to be easier to balance than a single sticker, sail areas were smaller in a blow and easier to manage. Didn't point as well as a sloop rig and was slower but she was a cruiser not a racer. Only reason I let her go was after 60 my physical condition wasn't as agile any more.

[zeehag]

dang , cpt phil--i got my ketch after i turned 60!!!! or just about the same time.....a sloop is a lot more difficult to cruise-- btdt last yr in gulf of mexico--was a gas-- i am glad i sailed that -- but i realllly missed my ketch when the electrical storms gave us 70 kt winds..LOL...is so much easier to handle smaller sails on a bigger boat than bigger sails on a smaller boat.
i have a choice of what i can sail--i own both a ketch and a sloop, each of which is a decent cruiser-- the ketch is my choice for cruising for me as it is a lot more practical for long distance sailing.

[Cherp]

Ketches are pretty as a picture. That's where the word "sketch" came from. Billy the Kid dreamed of going to sea to escape the law. He inquired of a yacht broker to get him a ketch if possible, and hence the adage "Ketch me if you can". The original builders of ketches always sailed with a saucy woman by the mizzen mast. Hence the word "ketchup". Didn't know that, didya?

[markpierce]

For smaller boats (25-40 feet), the cutter rig is handy. The mainsail is slightly smaller, and the jib area is divided between two sails. A highly-flexible and easier-to-handle rig compared to a sloop, and without the complications of a ketch.

[Butler]

""When Hurricane was being constructed by a Biloxi scow schooner builder, Kaufman and Menfred showed the builder the rigging plan; never having seen a ketch before, he looked very puzzled, and when asked his opinion of the rig he said, "Hell man that aint nothin' but a schooner rigged backwards" "
Donald Street, The Ocean Sailing Yacht

[Fortytwo]

Are you looking for a liveaboard or a singlehander? Or both? What would you prefer in a liveaboard and what would you prefer in a singlehandler? They are two different animals... Make two different lists and prioritize those lists together. When you're by yourself and the winds are at 25+ knots, you're not a liveaboard, you're singlehanded sailing.

[zeehag]

oh yeah--in a marina, a ketch has more places to hang your laundry.
there are more places to place tarps in winter to keep the bad weather off the boat.
mizzen boom is a great place to hang a kerosene cockpit/anchor lantern

[goboatingnow]

Other then looking nice, I cant see the advantage of a "modern " ketch over a sloop. Sail handling systems mean that under 55 foot there no advantage. A double headsail sloop is useful but thats nothing to do with a ketch. ON top of that you have all that extra rigging the expense of two masts etc etc not to mention deck clutter from all that rigging and as most small boats ketchs have a triatic stay , you dont even the redundancy of a dual masted rig.

Sail balance is really misleading, as in fact in heavy weather you what the tractive efforts closer to the centre of the vessel then further away.

Remember that Ketches developed and became popular in small boats as a result of a kink in the racing rules thats all.


A sloop is a better all rounder. Read Beth and Evans views on the subject , they started on a ketch..

Dave

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Remember that Ketches developed and became popular in small boats as a result of a kink in the racing rules thats all.

I could be wrong, but I think you're referring to the yawl-, not ketch-rig.

I think it depends mostly on the size of the boat and the type of sailing. On smaller boats (say under 40') and in relatively protected waters, the sloop wins, hands down.

The larger the boat, the more practical (and more advantageous) a ketch rig becomes - not only for sail handling and balance but because (at least in some designs) the main and mizzen have more seperation and so the latter eats less "dirty air" from the former.

The current meme seems to be that split rigs are anachronistic - but I am not so sure. They still have something to offer for an offshore sailor, I think.

Having sailed on a few ketches - one in heavy weather - I admire their handling in these conditions.

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Other then looking nice, I cant see the advantage of a "modern " ketch over a sloop. Sail handling systems mean that under 55 foot there no advantage. A double headsail sloop is useful but thats nothing to do with a ketch. ON top of that you have all that extra rigging the expense of two masts etc etc not to mention deck clutter from all that rigging and as most small boats ketchs have a triatic stay , you dont even the redundancy of a dual masted rig.

Sail balance is really misleading, as in fact in heavy weather you what the tractive efforts closer to the centre of the vessel then further away.

Remember that Ketches developed and became popular in small boats as a result of a kink in the racing rules thats all.


A sloop is a better all rounder. Read Beth and Evans views on the subject , they started on a ketch..

Dave

I must be in “have fun debating mode”,

Even on my smaller ketch I don’t need any of those sail handling systems like furlers that can break – KISS

Sail balance is really misleading? Well great thing is the ketch must work in light weather?

As far as heavy weather is concerned I also wonder why so many traditional North Sea fishing boats use yawl type setups (similar a ketch)? I am sure there is a practical purpose and they weren’t out to break sailing rules?

And most importantly, I previously owned a sloop and it worked fine. Maybe the ketch just gives me that bit extra to occupy my bored mind?

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by sneuman

I could be wrong, but I think you're referring to the yawl-, not ketch-rig.

The yawl is maybe a good alternate to a ketch? Even on a small boat, I would consider one before I went back to a sloop. I have looked at various makes of traditional sloops and wondered if the manufacturer could do a customised yawl without ruining the boats balance?

This might be going on a tangent, but I suppose the only real difference between a yawl and a ketch is the yawls mizzen is smaller and further back? Some boats might even sit between both?

[Imnine]

A mizzen on a yawl is primarily a balancing sail whilst on a ketch it is a driving sail. That's a generalisation, of course, but explains why the yawl has the mizzen behind the rudder post and the ketch has it ahead of it.

[Roaring Girl]

We have a 1977 heavy displacement CC ketch and enjoy the advantages of smaller sails and a wide range of alternative sail plans. Our mizzen is large, and if we ever had a reason/opportunity to we would have a smaller mizzen and raise the boom, which would make the aft deck easier to work and the sail itself a little easier to sheet and handle. There's no denying that it's more expensive in terms of rigging,and yes we have a triatic stay which reduces some of the advantages.

For us the pro's outweigh those issues. The smaller sails make her much easier to manage, particularly getting the main up alone. (Any couple sailing means that there are times you want to do these things on your own, but at the mo we don't either of us singlehand.) We don't like or trust electric winches. Single line reefing is fine on any sail, but getting the b---r up is what really takes the grunt. We get a lot out of the manifold choices, and we're really looking forward to playing with a mizzen staysail, especially in the variable winds of the Med. We have experienced strong winds in her, particularly in the North Sea and Biscay, and have found her dependable and easy to handle, especially on a close reach.

If I was looking for a single hander I would certainly include ketches on my list. I also think, though, that the right boat is the seaworthy (or nearly so) vessel at the price you can afford, in the right place and the right time!

[zeehag]

goboatinggnow--have YOU sailed on a long heavy weather passage in a sloop?? have you done so in a ketch? i have. i prefer the ketch, thankyou--is MUCH easier to sail in heavy weather. a sloop is a large handful in heavy weather--sailed gulf of mexico for a yr in a sloop-- i will agqin sail the gulf- but i WILL be in a ketch. i find ketch rig much more accommodating for long distance sailing in comfort.

[gpshephe]

Originally Posted by zeehag

dang , cpt phil--i got my ketch after i turned 60!!!! or just about the same time.....a sloop is a lot more difficult to cruise-- btdt last yr in gulf of mexico--was a gas-- i am glad i sailed that -- but i realllly missed my ketch when the electrical storms gave us 70 kt winds..LOL...is so much easier to handle smaller sails on a bigger boat than bigger sails on a smaller boat.
i have a choice of what i can sail--i own both a ketch and a sloop, each of which is a decent cruiser-- the ketch is my choice for cruising for me as it is a lot more practical for long distance sailing.

Curious if you live aboard, and if so , at anchor? or in a marina?