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Old 08-02-2014, 05:45   #16
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pirate Re: Tired of forum post showing up in my search

On the reputation comment, it doesn't take a long time to get a flavor of things. Some folks are on here for enjoyment, others are serious as a heart attack. Even a brand-newbie can see that soon enough. And one has to wonder about the IQ of a new buyer who'd consider a self survey given the money we're all tossing around. Even "free" is ofttimes too much.

We have folks on here who back up their advice with photographic essays; some with their own websites, and some with actual books in print. No reputations? Au contraire, Captain.
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Old 08-02-2014, 06:02   #17
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Re: Tired of forum post showing up in my search

Give a bad piece of advice here on CF and the sun won't set before it's ripped apart.

I'll also add that some of the worse advice I've seen given was at marinas.
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Old 08-02-2014, 06:56   #18
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Re: Tired of forum post showing up in my search

Quote:
Originally Posted by sealubber View Post
I've avoided at all cost to join forums and post things for over 20 years. But after researching a random part today for my job I finally got fed up with with random post showing up when I'm trying to solve a problem.

One post that somehow really got up my crawl was about a guy buying a boat and a bunch of people posting self survey advice.

I know I won't be popular here but at least I'll only say what I know is the best answer to anything I see. And I'm sure many people think the same when they are posting their input.

I'm a 49 year old Captain that was born as a liveaboard to a family of sailors. I have never lived on land my whole life. I spent money on getting a formal education in the maritime industry from undergraduate to graduate school and I've never worked a job on land. Even when I was in college at MMA I forced the staff to allow me to live on my boat while in the regiment. And when I was a the USMMA I stayed on my boat.

While I appreciate the DIY stuff/mantra and have seen tons of good advice I'm just tired of seeing new people get advice to do things that are not safe for their investment or beginning in this wonderful world.

It's not good to give people with information that will later deter them from giving the lifestyle a shot. We have a responsibility as experienced boaters to give really useful good information and should be calling out bad advice asap instead of worrying about what people or moderators are going to think or do if we are honest.

There is no reputation on these forums. Your reputation is in the marina where you reside or visit. Forums are for information not community.

Just My Opinion
Wow, this is great! If I understand correctly you have avoided forums for twenty years because why? You and your friend Kevin Costner are such master mariners you couldn't have previously been bothered? I am guessing here as you don't say.

Then one day you were "researching" and found yourself here. To your disconcertment you find "here" to be so rife with misinformation that you decide to break your vow of silence of over twenty years and take it upon yourself to combat this dearth of ignorance simply as a matter of civic responsibility?

Bravo! I mean clearly, based on your aggrandizement of your lifestyle and career as a mariner, we should count ourselves as gilded paupers to be graced by your presence. No doubt our silly little community will benefit and grow through the guidance of your prescient vision.

I look forward to learning the ways of your wisdom. Don't hold back. Please tell us the real truth with regards to anchor selection, guns onboard, and feral cats on shore! But seriously, you'll fit in just fine. There's at least a dozen guys here just like you. I don't mean to sound cruel, you're not that special.

Just My Opinion.
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Old 08-02-2014, 07:07   #19
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Some aspects of OP's impression are correct. CF started out the way it should be, i.e. Experienced cruisers helping other experienced cruisers and the newbie cruisers. They discussed and good options were put forward.

Times change. The classifieds section moved towards the "need boat for free" ads and people that do not own a boat, nor have ever sailed in their lives, started posting advice on how to do anything. Often, completely wrong advice, given wrongly on purpose, just for the heck of it to hope people would do it so they can have a laugh. This disgusting behavior can be seen all over the net... there are many who are very sick in their heads.

So, how to change things back? Forget it, I tried and was stopped. You are not to spoil the fun of these trolls. The forum doesn't care if info is good or bad, can't determine that anyway, and members should just have fun. I was told to stop telling people they posted wrong info, regardless of who is right, members are not to be confronted on this. Let it go, was what I was told. This is just the Internet.

Problem is that I was one who build a little piece of the Internet and believe me, none of us wanted to build a medium for fools. But it is how it is. I'm still here because of the community that exist and still try to help because many still appreciate that when they learn how to sift through it all to get the right answers/info. Some of us really have boats, live on them in exotic but 3rd world places and have been doing that for a long time
Jedi,
You have helped me extensively and for no reason other than kindness.
I remember how you have helped me, I would definitely call that community.
I just completed a major refit below the waterline on my Westsail, I'm currently sitting in the water at the boatyard tied to an old barge resting up from the labor intensive project. I removed the bottom paint, relocated thru-hulls, filled the discontinued holes, new seacocks, backing plates, 5 coats of Interlux barrier and so much more.
I could not have done it without the resources here in this community. I return to the forum at every possible chance.

There were several "30" year experience professional contractors here in the yard offering unsolicited advice. Much of it was backwards. One bloke that has a great reputation here in the yard had a fit when he saw me making my backing plates at my work station and told me it "was way overkill" and "all you need to do is screw the ball valve onto the thru-hull using the nut provided as a backing plate".
Good thing I knew better.
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Old 08-02-2014, 07:37   #20
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pirate Re: Tired of forum post showing up in my search

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... There were several "30" year experience professional contractors here in the yard offering unsolicited advice. Ain't it always thus?

Much of it was backwards. One bloke that has a great reputation here in the yard had a fit when he saw me making my backing plates at my work station and told me it "was way overkill" and "all you need to do is screw the ball valve onto the thru-hull using the nut provided as a backing plate".
Good thing I knew better.
Yepper. I'm thru-bolting my handrails and was admonished by a yacht broker buddy about "overkill." What crap. Everybody's an expert.
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Old 08-02-2014, 07:43   #21
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Re: Tired of forum post showing up in my search

To address what originally irked the OP, I have bought numerous sailboats without having a survey, and have only bought one with a survey. Sailing does not necessarily require a yacht. I have had tons of fun sailing one person sailboats, small dock derelicts that we fixed up, and my current boat, which is a 33. I totally think that one of the best ways to get into the sailing lifestyle is to start with something small and cheap. Then once you learn to sail, and decide if this is something you really want to do, you can move up to something bigger, more expensive, etc. Damn near the most fun I ever had was sticking my mast in the bottom of Lake Pontchartrain some 40 or so years ago!
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Old 08-02-2014, 07:43   #22
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Re: Tired of forum post showing up in my search

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While I can't disagree with lurking I can say I don't google advice. I might google a term and hit a forum which is what lead me here to begin with.

I can safely say I've been involved in my streets activities. I can bet many people know me on here as my parents were well known free sailing spirits on the east and west coast of the US and we did 5 loops before I went to college only one with my mother. My father is actually pretty well known in the sailing community through his younger antics and was published several times and now as an elder liveaboard. I was interviewed by Donahue with my brother and sisters about our experience living aboard and being home schooled several times in the late 80's and early 90's. "my street doesn't have a community feel" yeah it doesn't any more. I haven't left and come back. I've been here for years and I feel like every port I hit we are losing more and more of our community.

I've lived all over the world and have many moms and dads which are all passing on these days and I'm not seeing the community as strong as what I grew up in. I still work in it for a living and I still see old friends. I'm not a old timer rejecting technology I just see unfavourable changes these days in areas that once enhanced our community. For example the true salts I knew growing up if they read half these post you'd see here cursing and violent responses would be a short order.

I know not all cruisers are liveaboards and I know not all liveaboards are cruisers. Maybe for the first time I'm getting to read the advice I never got growing up or professionally but No I do not like it and I'll say it's not good placate idiotic statements I've seen in many of these forum post. And it has angered me.
To me, your post sounds like someone saying "don't you know who I am? I could blah blah blah." Just because you went to the MMA and can skipper a 100,000 ton cargo ship doesn't mean I should take your word for Gospel when it comes to my 37ft 16 ton sailboat. I know this may sound a bit off, but what your parents did or you did 20-30 years ago really doesn't count as much. So you've always lived on water. Great. That may be helpful to an established live aboard, but what about the guy who's just starting out? You have no idea what it's like to downsize from a 1,000 sq ft apartment to a 200 as ft boat that has the systems of a small city. I personally find the advice about performing a DIY survey very helpful. It can save you hundreds by allowing you to find a problem that you would have missed before. Then maybe it makes you walk away before you shell out the cash for a haul out and survey. FWIW, your posts sound like a spoiled rich kid that's upset the kids from down the street are playing in "your" sandbox at the park.

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Old 08-02-2014, 08:08   #23
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Re: Tired of forum post showing up in my search

Sealubber: What an extraordinary post!
Its not at all difficult to see why you have received a bit of a canning in response. But, i reckon you have gotten off lightly because of your newness to CF and to forums generally.... Although the 20 years was a bit much as you say in another post "One day I was pretty bored a year or so ago and spent the whole day hunting down owner forums for just about any type of sailboat that has an owners site. I set up a separate email account for these sites and now I consider it a library of of highly useful information. "

So now you have hit up 29 posts in one day, which must be an all time Cruises Forum record except for Boatman61 whose record is one post per second for three weeks flat.... We even think he was sailing at the time!


All I can say is that you could fit in here very well once you do some research on the word 'humility' and add it to your quiver of attributes. It makes posts more readable and the information palatable.


Welcome to our community. You are enjoying it already!



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Old 08-02-2014, 08:14   #24
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Re: Tired of forum post showing up in my search

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... So now you have hit up 29 posts in one day, which must be an all time Cruises Forum record except for Boatman61 whose record is one post per second for three weeks flat.... We even think he was sailing at the time! Mark
Boaty is certainly a worthy contender but I believe Rakuflames actually has the CF record.
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Old 08-02-2014, 08:16   #25
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Re: Tired of forum post showing up in my search

Lurked for a long time then joined when I felt ready to ask a question. Got great help and some odd ball responses. Now I try to respond only when I have something of value or interest to add. You do have to learn who is worth listening to and who is just entertaining himself with the conversation.

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Old 08-02-2014, 08:18   #26
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Boaty is certainly a worthy contender but I believe Rakuflames actually has the CF record.
And that was in a single Thread... RESPECT...
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Old 08-02-2014, 08:20   #27
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Quote:
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Lurked for a long time then joined when I felt ready to ask a question. Got great help and some odd ball responses. Now I try to respond only when I have something of value or interest to add. You do have to learn who is worth listening to and who is just entertaining himself with the conversation.

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I think Tayana is talking about us Phil. And correctly so.
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Old 08-02-2014, 09:06   #28
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Re: Tired of forum post showing up in my search

Reminds me of a conversation on the Comedy Net in the Southwest Pacific many years ago--Jim Cate should remember it, because he was listening too. The moderator said:

"There are two kinds of people on this net--the ones who talk because they have something to say, and the ones who talk because they have to say something."

I try to stay in the first category, but can't say that I've never strayed. The main value of this forum is that there are really some experienced people who contribute regularly. After 60 years of sailing, I learn something almost every day. Unfortunately, there is a fairly low signal-to-noise ratio on the internet. There are also those who post rubbish, but they usually get challenged within an hour. There are the 'discussions' where there is no right or wrong answer. There are the trolls, who post something really stupid just to get responses, and finally there are the personal attack dogs, whose egos can't take criticism.

To the OP, we really don't care if you lurk and we don't care if you post if you have something to say. If you try to post BS, be prepared to get slammed--titles and resumes don't get you respect on this forum.

Welcome aboard!
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:06   #29
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Re: Tired of forum post showing up in my search

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I did not have the experience being a older student in a regiment at a maritime academy, I can imagine that was a humiliating experience. If you had many years of experience working in the industry as well that commands a level of respect I doubt most people could tolerate long enough to finish.

Not saying the regiment or academics was ever hard or tough. But the personalities that go to these schools are always socially questionable. If you stayed in the business I'll bet you have seen half if not more of your class fall out of the industry. Out of the group that graduated with me I know nowadays only two people other than myself are working in the maritime industry today.

With that said I can understand why you decided not to polish your belt buckle. Sometimes oppositional defiance just makes you feel good.
Quite contrary, it wasn't a humiliating experience, as I understood the underlying concept was to prepare all midshipmen for positions of authority. BTW, I did polish that damn belt buckle, just not good enough on one occasion.

Your post managed to solicit responses from a number of CF's "A" team, so congratulations is in order.

D_O_J has the deserved reputation of offering thoughtful advise while Jedi just informs on how best to do something. Jedi cruises on a Sundeer 64 so you can see 2nd best doesn't cut it with him. Boatman and MarkJ do pull folk's chains a bit and both have extensive cruising experience. Cal40John and I share the respect of the same boat, a classic old Cal 40.

As a fellow MM graduate I joined this forum on a different note than you because I didn't have the cruising experience you have and at the time I was considering full time cruising. It was at least a year before I outed myself as working in the industry (post # 24 here The Advantages of Being a 100 Ton Captain) because I didn't think it was relevant to cruising.

After this outing I found many in the industry here on CF, and even though I might not return to cruising, CF is a good source of both friendships and information. My hope is over time you will know who to have fun with, learn from, and maybe meet up with in an anchorage from the many souls here on CF. The posters that have responded to your thread are all quality folks with their own experiences, so give us a chance, you might like us.
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:07   #30
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Re: Tired of forum post showing up in my search

Oooph, I kind of regret being the catalyst for this thread! I hope everyone on the internet realises that any online opinions and advice should be carefully evaluated with some common sense and additional learning. That said, I've repaired my cars and motorcycles both with advice from forums such as this, and the wealth of information and generosity of time and knowledge on this site is second to none! Thanks everyone for taking the time to educate a soon-to-be new owner (though a sailor for 16 years).
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