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Old 19-07-2009, 20:50   #1
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Three Stateroom Boats

So Ihave searched all over these forums and haven't been able to find much info. I also spent the better part of last night on yachtworld looking through different postings.

I am in the pre planning stage for a 2 year carib trip with my wife and two kids who will be 10 and 8 at the time. I know it is horrible to say in this part of the board but i would prefer a catamaran. I'd also like to win the lottery instead of working in a steel mill and I don't think either of those will happen... So looking at monohull boats in the $75000 and under range, I am trying to find some boats that have either 3 seperate staterooms or at the least stacked (over/under) bunks in the forward cabin. I would prefer a center cockpit.

a wish list would say
steel is my favorite material but I think it is unreasonable with my budget
headroom for someone 6'2"
draft suitable to the bahamas
master stateroom aft
Good ventilation
Sailplan manageable by a 5'6" woman of average strength.
center cockpit
Decent size sink in the galley


I am familiar with the Morgan OI 41's. My uncle owns one and while I know all of its faults, it would be acceptible choice except for the forward v berth. How difficult would it be to remove a v berth and install over under in its place?? If that is doable, that would make the number of possible boats open up considerably. I know thet the O/Is also had the over under berth on some models but not sure which ones. Any other/better sailing boats that have a smilar accom plan?

We aren't in any real rush. I have plenty more saving to do before we go. Trying to keep the fire alive about the trip by looking at some of the details.

Thanks!
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Old 19-07-2009, 21:00   #2
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you'll have to get lucky at that price, but...

...I saw an older (mk 1) catalina 42 go for $79,000 a few years back. It had been chartered and didn't have much in the way of electronics. But each child would get a private cabin in a boat like that. And although it's an aft-cabin boat, it would sail circles around a Morgan OI 41.
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Old 19-07-2009, 21:08   #3
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I had thought about an ex charter boat. A bit nervous about the damage they may have been subjected to. Seems like most charter boats over 40' have a forward master cabin and two smaller aft cabins. That would work I suppose but I haven't come across an CC that are laid out that way.

I definately realize that my old bayliner with me holding a t shirt above my head can sail better than an O/I in some circumstances. LOL I only mentioned them as I am familiar with them and generally am ok with the layout. In our case, we would be ok with the sailing of the morgan. So anything at that level or better would be fine.
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Old 19-07-2009, 21:14   #4
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If You aren't scared of crawling along in an OI?

You might want to look in to the Morgan OI 50's?
I've done a ton of work on these floating condos (3bedroom/2 bath ) & the ketch rig is totally manageable for a crew of 2 adults. They are extremely TAME to sail (<-liberally used here, although they do slightly outperform the 41's), 5' draft isn't a killer for the 'hamas & they are HUGE below decks.
Best part is that there are plenty < $100k out there, hit yachtworld & plug in 50' on those morgans...
although my choice hands down would be an older Catalina as suggested. No where near as many "creature comforts" as the big 50' OI's, just a world more fun to sail. Depends on what You plan on doing more of...
sailing, or "staying". That only YOU & the family can answer?
HTH,
-Mick
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Old 19-07-2009, 21:20   #5
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Hey Mick thanks. The little lady has to be happy and the creature comforts are more important to her than the sailing.

The 41 itself is a floating condo, I can't imagine what another 9 feet would be like.
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Old 19-07-2009, 21:45   #6
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You have a very tight budget and the purchase price won't cover a lot of things. Might need 20% more after the purchase. That's real numbers without much refitting. There are things you'll need to buy on any boat you consider but making the money work is clearly an issue - for any one. No one has unlimited money. I would suggest you start walking some docks and searching the Internet for actual boats you can see and walk on and bring everybody along. A lot of things work and not always as you might expect. You can get lucky too.

3 cabin boats you can afford are going to be quite old and cramped with too many cabins and not enough space. Center cockpits use space poorly until you get into the larger boats well out of the budget. Just hauling all the stuff you'll need is going to be pushing the limit.

You need to include the rest of the family in all this planning. It's going to be a rude awakening when they all decide you were the bad guy. You need to get the family all excited but you need to deal with realities too. It's hard and planning now is what you want to do.

Quote:
Seems like most charter boats over 40' have a forward master cabin and two smaller aft cabins.
Not really until you get into the 45 plus and more like the 50. You'll get more room in a sloop aft cockpit on your budget. Forget anything with a beam less than 12 ft. 13 to 14 will haul more stuff. Small center cockpit boats give up a whole lot. 3 cabin boats give up a lot of storage space you really will want. At one ton per person and assuming kids count half (they don't). You need to load 3 tons of stuff (fuel and water count) to travel. Guess who loads it all and where does it go? Stop thinking cabins and center cockpits and about space and storage. It's the key to making it work. Stashing 6,000 pounds of stuff and having a place to sit gets hard. 3 tons is really bare bones. I'm sure the Admiral can make a complete list of the things you have to have.

You need to accept limitations in how and where you travel and the budget you have to work with. There may be something to shake out of all this but not without the whole family signed up.
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Old 19-07-2009, 22:07   #7
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I'm in much the same market. And much the same budget.

You might try one of the "Leakie Teakies"

There were a bunch of boats build in the Far East back in the 70s and 80s that go for about <75k today.

Maybe some sort of Island Trader, Formosa, CT, Vagabond, Seawolf, or Mariner. I think even Choey Lee qualifies in this group.

There are a bewildering array of interor layouts. 3 cabin, 2 cabin, v beths, double berths in the bow, aft "owners" cabins, pilot births, you name it.

At least that's the good side. I'll let the other posters inform you as to the downsides.
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Old 20-07-2009, 01:54   #8
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Thanks again to those responding. I am well aware of the plethora of downsides. LOL My budget figure was for purchase price. After my last two boats I am very well aware of how much even a boat in good condition needs put into it after a purchase. I was hoping for a purchase of 75k and another 25k to fix things or add stuff we like. Additionally, we haven't reached the burn bridges point yet so nothing stops us from waiting another year or so to add more to the bank account if that is required. I really figured 100k was enough to get us off the dock. Maybe I am way off the mark on that. If I am too far off then we shelve the plan and charter for two weeks a year. I just know that no matter how good our storage and space is, there are a few things the wife must have. Tops for her on that list is a bit of privacy for us (as much as you can have seperated by 35 feet and some thin fiberglass) and a seperate bunk for each kid. I lived for 6 months at a time in my coffin rack in the navy and for a while had to hot rack so I know and agree with her that it is important for them to have their own space (even if it is small)

Is a ton a person for real??? What are we counting in that? Food,water, clothing, books and toys?
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Old 21-07-2009, 08:52   #9
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I think doing a two-week charter before plunging in and buying a 40+ foot cruising boat on which to abruptly move your family, would be a prudent move.
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Old 21-07-2009, 09:39   #10
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Now THERE's THE BEST SUGGESTION YET!

OP (SailCharleston),
the last posting before mine IS DEAD ON THE MARK.
CHARTER a RENTAL for 1-2 wks & MAKE SURE THE "Admiral" AND the Kiddies are on board with Your Agenda. It MATTERS MUCH before You go sinking 100k in to a "dream".
1 thing is for absolute certain...You'll find out whether they love it or hate it pretty quickly doing nothing more than port hopping and day sailing w/the "experiment". Shopping, heck EVERYTHING takes on an entirely different perspective, even in CLOSE TO HOME, Ports, the meet & greet/brunch/dinners among Your "neighbors" as liveaboards, etc.

It'll also give You a GR8 Feel for the things You'll NEED (like bikes, rental car, etc.) At Those Ports of Call abroad. Folks (who don't liveaboard, WITH KIDDIES, or Cruise Extensively) forget the benefit of things like the W&D right out there in the LAUNDRY ROOM now...and w/2 children (having raised 2 ourselves) can flat out go thru some clothes (& towels!). THEY get far more responsible when tasked the "laundry duties"(and unfortunately the QUARTERS, as in 1/4th DOLLARS).

It's not a "ton" per, OP, it's 3. That's water, fuel, canned goods, dry goods, shampoo, scripts, EVERY STINKING THING YOU NEED TO SURVIVE for 2 wks. I always heard the rule of 1-1.5T per person, he's just 2x'ed the fig. as You're talking 2 wks. Trust me, he's ALSO Very Right about WHO gets to "manage" where Everybody's EVERYTHING gets Stowed (or not), <-which will lead to the initial disgruntled passengers.

Your challenges are many, "Admiral" satisfaction being the least of them. You wouldn't BUY a daily driver vehicle w/o Test Driving Extensively First, ergo: test drive the philosophy/idea on somebody else's dime via a charter for a week for 3-6k before You go throwing 100k at a dream that may well not turn out Your future reality. Day sailors are a LOT CHEAPER, fyi...

BTDT; it only takes 1 digruntled of that "crew" of Yours for mutiny to be brewing for that entire wk (or 2, or more). Making sure everybody is on board with YOUR dream is STAGGERINGLY important.
Do the test drive.

(My Grandfather always used to say: "Life BEGINS Again when the KIDS Move Out & the Dog Dies"...I only disagree w/the dog part, as ours are wonderful & have their own life jackets...don't ask for keys to the car or college tuition .....now, if ONLY they could be trained to do the LAUNDRY! )
-Mick
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Old 21-07-2009, 19:32   #11
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Thanks y'all. It is a great idea and one I already planned. As I said we are still a ways away from actually buying and making the move. The kids haven't been on a charter but the wife and I have chartered. We also weekend on my little 25 foot Catalina I had. i realize 2 weeks/ a year is a lot different than a weekend. A lot different.

Maybe I can talk my uncle into letting us use his morgan 41 OI for a few weeks this fall.
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Old 21-07-2009, 20:05   #12
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Quote:
Maybe I can talk my uncle into letting us use his morgan 41 OI for a few weeks this fall.
Perfect idea. You don't have to go far just get the whole crew aboard and see if things work or what things don't. Maybe try different options and see if they want to hang you or not. I don't see this as something that just happens. Sorting out a group of people in close quarters is filled with it's subtle moments. OK, the not so subtle moments too. You bring all the benefits of a good family relationship but you also get all the weaknesses too. It's about finding what really works. If you find it, you best go with it.

A test sail seems far to easy. Could all be fun too! A little taste early just can't be bad for crew moral. You can buy a boat, but you build a crew. Don't expect the crew to come together all that easy or quickly. A preview helps everybody and most of the the skipper. Knowing more and learning more is all you have as the advantage as a skipper.
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Old 21-07-2009, 20:24   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailcharleston View Post
I had thought about an ex charter boat. A bit nervous about the damage they may have been subjected to...
I have a boat in charter and while they may get some abuse, they are also maintained better than most privately owned boats I've seen for sale. One frequent contributor here bought one and took it out voyaging with almost no work I believe. I think the big problem you will come into is that most of the ex charter boats in your price range that have three staterooms, did so by sacraficing storage space you may need for long term cruising. As with any boat in that price range, get a survey from a surveyor you trust and be ready to walk away if the survey indicates so.

I think your idea of modifying a large V-birth is a good one, but realize, depressed chain lockers, etc. may make that impossible on many. Some of those projects are not as expensive as you may think.

I'll add my vote to considering the Morgan OI. Good boats for the money I think.

Good luck in your search.
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Old 22-07-2009, 14:16   #14
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the right boat

I know absolutely nothing about sailboats, but I did spend a good 6 months addicted to yachtworld .com, or boatporn as my wife called it, and we made several trips to both coasts when we were looking for a boat. We finally narrowed it down to three boats in the 100k range and were about to choose when we were told of a boat a bank had repossessed and was looking to sell for 32k with 6k in fuel on it.
In this economic climate many financed boats are being dumped back on the banks and can be picked up very cheaply. It's a bit of legwork, but call around to local banks along seashore communities. If they have nothing, they will know who does. Offer 70% of asking.
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Old 22-07-2009, 14:34   #15
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Within your budget you might be able to get a mid eighties Beneteau ex charter boat such as a 43 ft Beneteau Idylle. These boats are solid and there is a sail locker aft that doubles as another berth.
1985 Beneteau Idylle 13.5 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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