Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-10-2018, 03:46   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 9
Thoughts on capabilities of this...

Hi all! New to this forum but have been reading along for quite some while. Thanks for that...

After a decade of running the corporate clock, it is time for a change of scenery. I am lucky enough to be able to do so, which means I'm currently in the market for a cruiser that will fit our needs. We are looking 50-55ft yachts that will bring us around the globe along the equatorial trade winds in a bit of comfort. Hoping to start somewhere in May 19 in the Mediterranean where we intend to stay up until November to catch a ride to the Caribbean. All is open after that.

I've been looking at several options; budget hovers around €250k for the hardware of this venture. Since we opt for the coconuts, there is not much need for a hard-core blue water cruiser; the scope is towards a bit more comfort since we might stay on board for a couple of years. Options that are being reviewed: Hanse 540, Beneteau 57 and a bit more outdated Atlantic 60.

Furthermore, in my many hours of window-shopping I stumbled across this listing as well: Yacht Marine - S/Y SERENITY 19 m

A couple of potential downsides: Its a custom with no track record and potentially worse (with all do respect); its Turkish built. On the other hand it looks like a rather solid (and heavily) build, well maintained and by the first looks of it, quite suitable for a lengthy trip.

How would you guys proceed? All options are on the table, and happy to review any suggestions you have. Since I'm not quite sure how to proceed, especially with this last option, all advice is highly appreciated!
__________________

csdjng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2018, 19:31   #2
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 5,928
Images: 40
Re: Thoughts on capabilities of this...

Welcome aboard csdjng! I have no idea about that particular boat though of course I will say get a survey if you still feel strongly about it after seeing it. I hope someone with experience with those boats and/or builder will chime in! There are quite a few folks here who can inform you on Hanses, Beneteaus and Atlantics though.
__________________

__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2018, 01:29   #3
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 13,727
Re: Thoughts on capabilities of this...

csdjng,

Welcome aboard CF. Some straight talk follows:

I looked at the "about me" in your profile. It said, "Gender, male." Okay, how on earth do you suppose that someone who might give you feedback about boats could do so given so sparse information. Sorry, but a tradewinds circumnavigation as a goal, for a person who has never sailed before, nor maintained a boat......

No one can answer the question meaningfully with the lack of data you have given us. It is not that the more knowledgeable among us might like to try, but as it is, it's a no win situation.


Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2018, 03:45   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 9
Re: Thoughts on capabilities of this...

Dear JPA,

Thanks for your respons. I'm afraid your assumptions on an empty 'about me' section and this translating into zero experience are not quite accurate. But I appreciate any feedback and will try to add some details to this later. For your information, I have +20yrs of experience sailing a wide variety of mono hulls and sizes, ranging from light production boats (like the Hanse) to the more appreciated customs like Swans, Westerly's and Hallberg Rassy's. This includes a wide variety of weather and open water down the North Atlantic, North sea, Med's and the Scandinavian coasts.

My question was 2 folded: Firstly, I'm looking for advice from people with experience on the Hanse's, the Bene 57 or the Atlantic 60 in relation to my aforementioned itinerary and secondly, any advice whether or not to dig into the more exotic option which on first hand looks attractive and capable, but could prove to be a challenge later. And more specifically, how to approach such opportunity. Any guidance on the subject is appreciated!

Thanks!
csdjng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2018, 04:07   #5
Registered User
 
Suijin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Annapolis MD; currently in New England
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 4,099
Re: Thoughts on capabilities of this...

It looks well designed and built but short of you getting feedback from those with direct knowledge of the yard and the designer I don’t think you’ll get much useful feedback from us.

The pictures don’t reveal much other than the apparent finish quality. No sense of the space, the deck layout, how things are from a functional perspective.

I think you’ll have to go look at it in person to take the real measure of it, if you’re seriously interested. Pictures never tell the real story of a boats fitness for a given purpose.
__________________
"Having a yacht is reason for being more cheerful than most." -Kurt Vonnegut
Suijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2018, 04:48   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Brazil
Boat: Custom Swedish Vindö 50 (35 ft)
Posts: 387
Re: Thoughts on capabilities of this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by csdjng View Post

Furthermore, in my many hours of window-shopping I stumbled across this listing as well: Yacht Marine - S/Y SERENITY 19 m
I think that boat merits a closer look! It looks like a terrific cruising boat with the hard dodger and protected steering station, comfortable cockpit, big engine room etc. Beautiful boat! I could even overlook the teak decks...
Copacabana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2018, 09:33   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
SV Bacchus's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Stuart, FL
Boat: Leopard 42 OV
Posts: 1,138
Re: Thoughts on capabilities of this...

Holy Crap that is a nice, big boat! Exterior layout seems similar to the Super Maramu. I can't advise on the boat at all but my first impression is too much wood in the cockpit. That along with the teak decks would need a closer look by 1) yourself as you seem to have some background on vessels of this a caliber and 2) a surveyor, of course.
__________________
SV Bacchus - spreading libations world wide, via sailboat, to help the "up tight" relax and enjoy life!
SV Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2018, 10:13   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 13,350
Re: Thoughts on capabilities of this...

On the listing it says the hull is epoxy laminated mahogany. I believe this means it is a boat built with strips of wood, saturated in epoxy and laid in up multiple layers not unlike layers of fiberglass. If I recall this is how Ann and Jim Cate's boat is built.

So not exactly like a regular wood boat and my understanding the epoxy saturation eliminates 99% of the problems with standard wood hulls BUT it is a wood boat and unless you find a buyer looking for this type of construction might impact resale down the road. There are advantages reported to this construction, sound and temperature insulating qualities of wood without the downsides is one that comes to mind. I think Ann could offer some opinions on the hull. However there is a LOT of wood on the deck which translates into a LOT of maintenance.

Finally, these boats are usually one off so the quality will completely depend on the skill and effort from the builder.

Could be a gem but I would proceed with caution.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2018, 10:49   #9
Registered User
 
JohnEasley's Avatar

Join Date: May 2016
Location: Palmetto, FL
Boat: "Yacht-a Yacht-a" -- 1986 Chris Craft 42' Catalina 426 Aft Cabin
Posts: 522
Images: 5
Re: Thoughts on capabilities of this...

Man, that is one pretty boat!
JohnEasley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2018, 11:13   #10
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 22,166
Images: 2
pirate Re: Thoughts on capabilities of this...

I would not overstress the Turkish B/Y... they have skills long lost in the W and hand built/cut is more often the order of the day.. likely the build was supervised throughout.. Germans are efficient.
Turkey has a bad rap because of the cheap Charter Gulets built to a price for one purpose.. and its not sailing.
As for the designer.. he seems well regarded in SuperYachtTimes and Boat International..
She is a beaut.
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2018, 12:12   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 13,350
Re: Thoughts on capabilities of this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnEasley View Post
Man, that is one pretty boat!
Yes indeed. Boat porn of the highest caliber.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2018, 15:26   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 9
Re: Thoughts on capabilities of this...

Thanks a lot for all your feedback! I'm going to read in to the concept of epoxy laminated mahogany a bit more. I'm surely no expert on that subject.

One other thing that worries me a bit is that it shows 32t of displacement, and its engine (268hp) proves it needs quite a bit of power to propel it through the water. Compared to a Super Maramu (16m, 16t) or Amel 55 (17,4m, 21t), I wonder if it will pick up speed under sail at all?

However, I fully agree it looks absolutely stunning. I will continue to look for red flags, I would like to maintain a rational position at this point, but if I don't find enough, I might have to drop by somewhere next month for a visit...
csdjng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2018, 15:42   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2016
Boat: McCurdy & Rhodes Custom 46
Posts: 216
Re: Thoughts on capabilities of this...

As an owner of an older custom build I think that there is something to be said about the yard’s reputation. Some builders have poor reputations. Some have excellent reputations. This changes over time as well.

If you can find out a bit about the rep of the yard that built her it will help focus your thinking a bit.

In my case an excellent reputation let me set aside the concerns about a one off and focus on general condition and maintenance history.
dfelsent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2018, 16:27   #14
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 13,071
Re: Thoughts on capabilities of this...

FWIW:

There are two general types of wood/epoxy construction, usually called either strip plank or cold molded (and the latter in some areas is called triple diagonal). Strip planking (as in our own boat) is small strakes (ours are 25x25 mm Western Red Cedar) laid horizontally, often edge nailed, and each glued to its neighboring strake with epoxy. There are often nternal ring frames and bulkheads to strengthen the structure. A keelson or other strongback is usually included to attach the keel and support the engine and mast loads. Glass is applied inside and out in fairly thin layers, with additional layers in high stress areas.

The cold molded hull is made up of several layers of relatively thin (4-8 mm) veneers, cut in widths of 100-300 mm and applied at an angle to each other and again glued with epoxy in between layers. Glass outside and usually inside as in strip planking.

Both are well researched methods and either can produce extremely strong and stiff hulls. VArious timbers are used, and "mahogany" being a poorly defined term, I'm not sure how to evaluate its usage here. As someone else suggested, the reputation of the builder is a clue, and more detailed info on the construction would be useful to you.

The finish work looks very good, and that is a hopeful sign in general. Indeed a lovely boat, one far more attractive to me than any of the other designs you've mentioned. The very large engine is kinda odd, but may reflect the original owners personal prejudices and the design brief given the designer. Tankage is huge and suggests that she was conceived as a motor sailer. Some review of the SA to D numbers would be in order, as would a conference with her designer.

It would be instructive to know the age of the photos. If current, she presents very well. The teak decks (something I do not generally like) appear to be glued rather than screwed down and to be in good order.

A final thought: the issue of a one-off boat is tricky. If the design meets your personal check list and is well executed, it can be a wonderful vessel for you (ours is!). When time to sell comes, the market is limited to others with the knowledge and courage to step off the common path and imagined "safety" of production boats. This could be a problem, especially if you don't intend to own the boat for a long time.

In your place, I'd sure be having a very close look at her!

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II in the Pittwater for a few weeks
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2018, 16:42   #15
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,643
Re: Thoughts on capabilities of this...

I would start with a sound judgement of my sailing and physical abilities. Fitness level counts. It is a biggish boat. Unless you use paid or unpaid crew.


For one off, you are taking a pro surveyor when you go to the broker.


Have fun,
barnakiel
__________________

barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Working from boat/fax capabilities? Capandmrswood Liveaboard's Forum 39 28-12-2012 08:46
Capabilities of a '73 Coronado 30 ?? Dexterbase Monohull Sailboats 4 29-09-2012 04:19
Toilets and Shower More Important Than Sailing Capabilities ? Zonker Multihull Sailboats 40 11-04-2012 15:07
Tiki 46 Tacking Capabilities itsMarek Multihull Sailboats 9 05-05-2011 00:36
boat capabilities martinworswick General Sailing Forum 2 09-01-2009 14:00



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:28.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.