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Old 25-07-2016, 10:46   #16
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Re: This will be interesting

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Originally Posted by CrazyStoney View Post
Ok, first time boat buyer. 20k AUD budget. I want a live aboard. What are your thoughts on this? I know it has the dreaded F word when it comes to hull composition. But seriously I have read and read and read about Ferro and the conclusion seems to be. " If it is well built it is good, if it is not well built it is bad." I don't really want to get into the good and bad of Ferro, it has been done many times before. If you had 20k and you were to by a boat ( in Australia ) would you buy this? Please bare in mind. I am 6'6" so I find it hard to fit on a lot of smaller boats. I am thinking ONLY of coastal sailing at this point and honestly not at any great rate of knots. I just want to get into the lifestyle. Thanks for being honest, I won't get upset, and I'm sure I will make some good friends
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As has been suggested take the boat out and see how she performs, check out and try to identify what needs making good and then pitch an offer based on this. Beware that one day, you too shall want/need to sell this boat so only pay what you feel you believe the boat shall be worth in, say, two or five years time.
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Old 25-07-2016, 11:26   #17
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Re: This will be interesting

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I don't understand, why would you want to insure a less than $20K boat. Surely your paying cash? Sometimes insurance isn't a good thing, My Son wanted to buy full coverage insurance for his truck, and was going to, until I pointed out that at that cost, he could buy another truck every three years
Insurance isn't just to cover yourself. It's the third party and public liability aspect that's important. What if your son smashes into something? Even knocking over a traffic light can cost tens of thousands.

There are many boats running round Sydney harbour that would require serious cash just to fix a scratch.

The insurance on that boat will be less than $20 per month. I would go to the same insurance company that the current owner has and check out if they would insure me as part of the decision/purchase process.

Ugly as boat by the way. I like it. Offer $9K as that's a good deal for both of you and more than it's worth. And just remember that whatever you pay will be difficult to get back. But hey, assuming it comes with a mooring, it will be the cheapest apartment in Pittwater.
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Old 25-07-2016, 11:42   #18
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Re: This will be interesting

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Insurance isn't just to cover yourself. It's the third party and public liability aspect that's important. What if your son smashes into something? Even knocking over a traffic light can cost tens of thousands.

There are many boats running round Sydney harbour that would require serious cash just to fix a scratch.

The insurance on that boat will be less than $20 per month. I would go to the same insurance company that the current owner has and check out if they would insure me as part of the decision/purchase process.

Ugly as boat by the way. I like it. Offer $9K as that's a good deal for both of you and more than it's worth. And just remember that whatever you pay will be difficult to get back. But hey, assuming it comes with a mooring, it will be the cheapest apartment in Pittwater.
........+1, totally agree.
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Old 25-07-2016, 12:28   #19
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Re: This will be interesting

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I don't understand, why would you want to insure a less than $20K boat.
Surely your paying cash?
Sometimes insurance isn't a good thing, My Son wanted to buy full coverage insurance for his truck, and was going to, until I pointed out that at that cost, he could buy another truck every three years
Liability should be all small boat owners need.
Taking a piece out of a high dollar yacht could be costly.

It seems many marinas require the liability insurance. It makes sense to me.
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Old 25-07-2016, 12:39   #20
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Re: This will be interesting

AUS?

Can you get a Prout or similar there?

b.
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Old 25-07-2016, 14:01   #21
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Re: This will be interesting

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Originally Posted by Bulawayo View Post
As has been suggested take the boat out and see how she performs, check out and try to identify what needs making good and then pitch an offer based on this. Beware that one day, you too shall want/need to sell this boat so only pay what you feel you believe the boat shall be worth in, say, two or five years time.
No offense meant but this is a very strange post. It's difficult to know what this boat is worth now let alone what it will be worth in 5 years which will depend on how strong the market is then & how well the boat has been maintained. If you're saying the seller should eat 5 years of future depreciation so you won't have to when you sell, then that's pretty unrealistic. What you want to do is pay no more & hopefully less than it's current market value.
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Old 25-07-2016, 14:36   #22
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Re: This will be interesting

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No offense meant but this is a very strange post. It's difficult to know what this boat is worth now let alone what it will be worth in 5 years which will depend on how strong the market is then & how well the boat has been maintained. If you're saying the seller should eat 5 years of future depreciation so you won't have to when you sell, then that's pretty unrealistic. What you want to do is pay no more & hopefully less than it's current market value.
Hi Scout.
If you were buying an unusual car that had no inherent collectors value you would do exactly this. You would say to yourself, I am unlikely to keep this boat for longer than (say) 5 years and after that period of time I could likely only realise 50% of what I paid today. As such, bargain the price down. Very similar as to how you would purchase said car. Most boats are a depreciating asset. Buy a boat with this in mind and there is less chance of being so financially impaired later. This is one reason to offer low on this particular boat. Yes, its the buyers prerogative to get the best deal he can for himself and believe me, it is realistic - cash is king and many believe another global recession is pending so if you accept that, then hang onto your bucks and negotiate hard.
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Old 25-07-2016, 14:59   #23
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Re: This will be interesting

Life is too short to own an ugly boat.
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Old 25-07-2016, 15:03   #24
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Re: This will be interesting

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Hi Scout.
If you were buying an unusual car that had no inherent collectors value you would do exactly this. You would say to yourself, I am unlikely to keep this boat for longer than (say) 5 years and after that period of time I could likely only realise 50% of what I paid today. As such, bargain the price down. Very similar as to how you would purchase said car. Most boats are a depreciating asset. Buy a boat with this in mind and there is less chance of being so financially impaired later. This is one reason to offer low on this particular boat. Yes, its the buyers prerogative to get the best deal he can for himself and believe me, it is realistic - cash is king and many believe another global recession is pending so if you accept that, then hang onto your bucks and negotiate hard.
This simply makes no sense. Every boat is a depreciating asset. Eventually the boat will be worth nothing so why not offer nothing now? If you are buying a car you negotiate based upon the current market value of the car, not what it's going to be worth 5 years after you buy it.
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Old 25-07-2016, 16:09   #25
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Re: This will be interesting

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Somewhere between no, and not a chance. There is absolutely no safe way to move forward of the pilot house, and those skinny side decks simply are not acceptable. Add in a number of other weird design issues and I would keep looking.
I'm 6-4 and 71. With handholds on the hardtop on one side and lifelines on the other, I could easily step my way safely forward. Once there, it's an arena. I like it.

I'm currently parked next to a very expensive power boat. there is a significant length with only a life rail between the step aboard and forward, and no more width with a considerably steeper pitch to the cabin side.

They, somehow, manage, too...
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Old 25-07-2016, 16:56   #26
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Re: This will be interesting

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I am somewhat perplexed with the ferro/ fiberglass. If I recall it was substituting glass fiber in the cement for the chicken wire. Which makes sense since rusting chicken wire was always the down side.
Ferro cement works because steel has excellent tensile strength, adhesion to cement, a fairly comparable rate of thermal expansion as the surrounding cement and steel also survives in the alkaline environment. Steel reinforced concrete is by far the worlds most successful building material. I have yet to see a fiberglass apartment block. Fibreglass strands do not generally survive in an alkaline environment and is also hydroscopic as seen in the dreaded fibreglass osmosis. The presence of the water destroys any adhesion between the glass strands and the cement leading to rapid failure. If there was a functional substitute for steel in concrete I am sure it would be used in bridge pylons and breakwaters.
However, it is true that many ferro cement vessels had internal voids (due to poor application of the cement mix) and many also used poor quality concrete mixes that had excess water in the mixes which after setting, led to evaporation and high porosity. Ultimately the ingress of salt water would win leading to corrosion of the steel reinforcing.
There are many ferro hulls that are still functioning after many decades. However, the application of the water proofing epoxies and careful checking when on the slips is essential as it is with any material in such an aggressive chemical environment.
Many ferro cement hulls have no internal paint cover at all as there simply is no need . Try that with steel or timber!
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Old 25-07-2016, 17:24   #27
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Re: This will be interesting

Looks like a fair deal to me, and I don't consider it ugly! Actually looks like a nice, well constructed boat to me. At that price you will not go wrong.
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Old 25-07-2016, 18:23   #28
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Re: This will be interesting

That is a nice pilothouse motorsailer!
The regular stand out in the weather folks just don't appreciate them.

I don't know what the underwater design is or how well it sails-but they are a compromise to an extent. You trade some sailing ability for a lot of comfort.

Side decks look to be 10-12" -plenty wide for me & you have a grab rail on top of p/house.

That Yanmar will cruise all day on < 2ltr/hr-sails up or down.

As for hull construction/condition-you should certainly go over it carefully.
Apply a 2Lb mall to the hull with owners permission. Works well on GRP also.

If you like the boat after test sail & survey & verifying that it can be insured-I say go for it. You are the one living with it.

Shame is-if you haven't spent hours or days standing out in blazing sun or rotten cold weather,you will never really appreciate the pilothouse.

Here are pics of mine-we can both be laughed at-while were warm & cozy

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3o29kjvzh6...ored2.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nyf0rm95pf...Stern.JPG?dl=0


Edit: I do have a tiller for nice days.

Cheers/ Len
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Old 25-07-2016, 19:22   #29
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Re: This will be interesting

I think it is ok to go for, looks comfy inside.
I know of a fiberglass 37 footer in Moreton Bay which is far better. The owner is asking $30,ooo .
Tim.
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Old 25-07-2016, 20:32   #30
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Re: This will be interesting

Well, I have a ferro boat in Prince of Wales Bay near Hobart which is 20 years old which has passed purchase inspection 3 times with flying colours.
It is the builder that should be investigated as well as the boat being surveyed by a qualified shipwright.
The De Groot brothers in Tasmania are well known for building quality ferro boats from mid twenties to over forty feet in length.
Backyard first-time builders give ferro boats a bad name.
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