Thinking of Buying a Used Beneteau 39

[S/V Illusion]

I was trying to add some constructive feedback to the OP's question. Not sure how you objectively determined I don't know how to sail "properly"... I don't have a dog in this fight although apparently you do (and I understand pride of ownership). As I said, I have extensively sailed a B393. Too bad people here get so much grief expressing opinions based on experience.

[Sailndive345]

...Going back to the original topic ...

They are fine boats and they sail well - I'm on my second one; been sailing them since '87. One thing for sure, though - don't expect the 'perfect' boat: While the basic boat design, build quality and rig are fine, you'll find numerous 'nuisance' grade issues that you'll have to deal with. If you are mechanically inclined, these ought to not be a deterrent - helps make the boat 'your' boat.

Happy shopping!

Sailndive

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

The hull form fwd of the keel is virtually flat which is a preferred design for speed but not comfort.

Now there is some truth to what you say, not concerning the flat bottom, thats bull but the comfort issue is a fact.
If you were to compair sailing a beneteau to setting on a bouy, the bouy is a much more comfortable ride, but its not going anywhere..
When you travel forward in a boat, power of sail, you're bound to hit an oncomming wave now and then, and when you hit it, you will feel it pound.
The difference is, your going somewhere in a Beneteau,
So its a choice, you either go somewhere, or you set around like a bouy and injoy the ride..

[Cherp]

How is a 393 sailed into the wind in heavier weather without pounding? Off the wind a little? I have no idea if they pound or not. I'm just interested in the sailing mechanics of it.

[speedoo]

Originally Posted by Cherp

How is a 393 sailed into the wind in heavier weather without pounding? Off the wind a little? I have no idea if they pound or not. I'm just interested in the sailing mechanics of it.

Right, usually cracking off a bit helps because you change the angle at which you go into the waves. By cracking off a bit you allow the boat to sail over the waves rather than through them. So there is far less pounding, the ride becomes much more comfortable, less noisy, and you still make good progress upwind.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by speedoo

Right, usually cracking off a bit helps .

In heavy conditions also pinching a bit can be good, it brings the boat speed down a little which can be good, lets you have a good cutting edge to the waves. One generally isn't too woried about speed.

Even on full keelers you can make them pound if you sail them badly. Hold your hand at 45 degrees, back of the hand down and then drop it vertically. It will smack a horozontal surface. But now with your hand instead of dropping it verticaly use it to cut like a knife like when a cook dices vegtables. Its a rounded motion onto whats below. So your slices would look like the edges of the sails of the Sydney Opera House in 3D.

When you are hand steering any boat full and by, come up the wave and near the top come up to wind a bit more. You will cut the wave with your curved knife. Pay off a bit on the other side.

It will work on Autopilot too when its right.

So whether you crack off a bit or pinch a bit, etc, may be suited to the conditions and especially the seas. (Don't get worried in short steep seas) its just a matter of finding the 'zone'. When our boat gets into it I know. When it isn't in it and doesn't want to play the game I may have to start from the beginning and try thing one by one. But always when I have the sails set well, properly reefed to the wind and the course working for the waves she will glide through anything faster and easier.

Whether the boat is a full keeler, flat bottom brick, Mumm 30, Adams 12, Open 60, IOR racer or a Bene unless the design is pretty bad you can do it without slamming if you try. I know if my boat comes down heavily I must get off my butt and check my sails, wind and waves.

We are cruisers. We don't have to sail flat out. Our priority is to keep the boat going not just during this blow, but for many, many years to come!
Slow down!



Mark
PS Yes, I know theres times when you go flying up a wave and their ain't jus nothing below you because the water has disappeared up Neptunes butt - yes, it'll pound. Any boat will then.

[Joli]

You can avoid pounding flat fore footed boats by falling on the turn of the bilge. (IE the fore foot isn't flat when the boat is heeled). Inversely you can break flat footed boats by dropping off largish waves with no heel.

[goboatingnow]

I owned a 393, good sea boat,, had the deep keel version, boat doesnt pound any more then any others. Simple systems, strong hull. You cant really go wrong at the price.

Dave

[nigel1]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I
When you are hand steering any boat full and by, come up the wave and near the top come up to wind a bit more. You will cut the wave with your curved knife. Pay off a bit on the other side.

It will work on Autopilot too when its right.

S.

Hi Mark, I'm a novice compared to you and Nic, and I'm intrigued about the auto pilot bit, then hand steering bit I have done in heavy seas, never occurred to me to use the AP in those conditions, so whats the trick to set it up

[Liam Wald]

The best way to use an autopilot is to pretend that you don't have one...
Get the sail plan set correctly and balanced so that the boat is tracking "pretty well" on it's own and then turn on the autopilot.
In heavy seas (going down wind) balancing the boat may involve slowing down and trailing a drogue.
Almost all well designed boats will be able to be trimmed to track well. Sail trim includes having the right size sails. The most common error is overpowering the rig with too much sail and loading up the rudder.
The boat should have a "slight" bit of weatherhelm. If the helm is loaded too much it is time to do one or more of the following...reuce sail, flatten the main, drop the traveler, adjust the outhaul, change headsail, adjust travelers, etc...

[nigel1]

Thanks LIam,

I thought Mark was describing how the AP, and sail trim could be set up to allow the boat to pinch up going up the wave, and fall off going down hill

[Liam Wald]

Hi Nigel,
Greetings from Santa Cruz California.
I don't know how to do what Mark describes. I am not sure that it is possible unless you are going so slow that the boat stalls after climbing the wave and then falls off to gain momentum again.
Sounds tricky at best.
Liam.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

Hi Nigel,
Greetings from Santa Cruz California.
I don't know how to do what Mark describes. I am not sure that it is possible unless you are going so slow that the boat stalls after climbing the wave and then falls off to gain momentum again.
Sounds tricky at best.
Liam.

Might have the answer to that one... Awhile back I had problems with my auto helm, when I would crest a wave, the nose would start to fall off and with the wind in the sails, she'd sort of round up slightly and roll off the crest and then the auto helm would react and stear me back on course, so I was doing a sort of figure 8..
I went in and increased the responce time and she'd tighten up on the reaction time to fall off the wave true to the course..
so I would think, If you played with the reaction time or the responce of the auto helm, it would give you more of a sloppy reaction and roll off the wave..
Just an Idea............

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by nigel1

I thought Mark was describing how the AP, and sail trim could be set up to allow the boat to pinch up going up the wave, and fall off going down hill

No, sorry the AP is not smart enough to do that. Yes, it looks like thats what I said in my post. Sorry for the conflicting thoughts.

I like Liam's words:

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

The best way to use an autopilot is to pretend that you don't have one...
Get the sail plan set correctly and balanced so that the boat is tracking "pretty well" on it's own and then turn on the autopilot.

Feel by hand and then set the Auto Pilot so it can best emulate your course. The Smart Pilot program in the raymarine is meant to help by remembering the regular waves. I dont know how much it does, but it seems better after a few minutes. But in genteral an Auto Pilot has a iron heart, not an intelligent adaptdable one.

Damn pitty that

[nigel1]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Feel by hand and then set the Auto Pilot so it can best emulate your course. The Smart Pilot program in the raymarine is meant to help by remembering the regular waves. I dont know how much it does, but it seems better after a few minutes. But in genteral an Auto Pilot has a iron heart, not an intelligent adaptdable one.

Damn pitty that

Thats a relief, I thought I was really missing something fundamental there.
We have whats called an Adaptive Auto Pilot (on the tug boat, not the bene), which can work out whats going and adapts to anticipate wave and swell movement. Probably cost as much as my sail boat