Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-05-2010, 09:20   #16
Registered User
 
S/V Illusion's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FLORIDA
Boat: Alden 50, Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 1,693
I was trying to add some constructive feedback to the OP's question. Not sure how you objectively determined I don't know how to sail "properly"... I don't have a dog in this fight although apparently you do (and I understand pride of ownership). As I said, I have extensively sailed a B393. Too bad people here get so much grief expressing opinions based on experience.
__________________

__________________
S/V Illusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 13:48   #17
Registered User
 
Sailndive345's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 461
Posts: 349
...Going back to the original topic ...

They are fine boats and they sail well - I'm on my second one; been sailing them since '87. One thing for sure, though - don't expect the 'perfect' boat: While the basic boat design, build quality and rig are fine, you'll find numerous 'nuisance' grade issues that you'll have to deal with. If you are mechanically inclined, these ought to not be a deterrent - helps make the boat 'your' boat.

Happy shopping!

Sailndive
__________________

__________________
Sailndive345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 17:17   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
Randyonr3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Beneteau FIRST 42
Posts: 1,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion
The hull form fwd of the keel is virtually flat which is a preferred design for speed but not comfort.
Now there is some truth to what you say, not concerning the flat bottom, thats bull but the comfort issue is a fact.
If you were to compair sailing a beneteau to setting on a bouy, the bouy is a much more comfortable ride, but its not going anywhere..
When you travel forward in a boat, power of sail, you're bound to hit an oncomming wave now and then, and when you hit it, you will feel it pound.
The difference is, your going somewhere in a Beneteau,
So its a choice, you either go somewhere, or you set around like a bouy and injoy the ride..
__________________
Randyonr3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 23:04   #19
Registered User
 
Cherp's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hobart Australia
Boat: Catalina Morgan 45
Posts: 308
How is a 393 sailed into the wind in heavier weather without pounding? Off the wind a little? I have no idea if they pound or not. I'm just interested in the sailing mechanics of it.
__________________
Cherp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 05:45   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherp View Post
How is a 393 sailed into the wind in heavier weather without pounding? Off the wind a little? I have no idea if they pound or not. I'm just interested in the sailing mechanics of it.
Right, usually cracking off a bit helps because you change the angle at which you go into the waves. By cracking off a bit you allow the boat to sail over the waves rather than through them. So there is far less pounding, the ride becomes much more comfortable, less noisy, and you still make good progress upwind.
__________________
speedoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 06:40   #21
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedoo View Post
Right, usually cracking off a bit helps .
In heavy conditions also pinching a bit can be good, it brings the boat speed down a little which can be good, lets you have a good cutting edge to the waves. One generally isn't too woried about speed.

Even on full keelers you can make them pound if you sail them badly. Hold your hand at 45 degrees, back of the hand down and then drop it vertically. It will smack a horozontal surface. But now with your hand instead of dropping it verticaly use it to cut like a knife like when a cook dices vegtables. Its a rounded motion onto whats below. So your slices would look like the edges of the sails of the Sydney Opera House in 3D.

When you are hand steering any boat full and by, come up the wave and near the top come up to wind a bit more. You will cut the wave with your curved knife. Pay off a bit on the other side.

It will work on Autopilot too when its right.

So whether you crack off a bit or pinch a bit, etc, may be suited to the conditions and especially the seas. (Don't get worried in short steep seas) its just a matter of finding the 'zone'. When our boat gets into it I know. When it isn't in it and doesn't want to play the game I may have to start from the beginning and try thing one by one. But always when I have the sails set well, properly reefed to the wind and the course working for the waves she will glide through anything faster and easier.

Whether the boat is a full keeler, flat bottom brick, Mumm 30, Adams 12, Open 60, IOR racer or a Bene unless the design is pretty bad you can do it without slamming if you try. I know if my boat comes down heavily I must get off my butt and check my sails, wind and waves.

We are cruisers. We don't have to sail flat out. Our priority is to keep the boat going not just during this blow, but for many, many years to come!
Slow down!



Mark
PS Yes, I know theres times when you go flying up a wave and their ain't jus nothing below you because the water has disappeared up Neptunes butt - yes, it'll pound. Any boat will then.
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 07:10   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,313
You can avoid pounding flat fore footed boats by falling on the turn of the bilge. (IE the fore foot isn't flat when the boat is heeled). Inversely you can break flat footed boats by dropping off largish waves with no heel.
__________________
Joli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 07:22   #23
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
I owned a 393, good sea boat,, had the deep keel version, boat doesnt pound any more then any others. Simple systems, strong hull. You cant really go wrong at the price.

Dave
__________________
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 07:38   #24
Moderator
 
nigel1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Manchester, UK
Boat: Beneteau 473
Posts: 5,185
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
I
When you are hand steering any boat full and by, come up the wave and near the top come up to wind a bit more. You will cut the wave with your curved knife. Pay off a bit on the other side.

It will work on Autopilot too when its right.

S.
Hi Mark, I'm a novice compared to you and Nic, and I'm intrigued about the auto pilot bit, then hand steering bit I have done in heavy seas, never occurred to me to use the AP in those conditions, so whats the trick to set it up
__________________
Nigel
Beneteau 473
Manchester, UK
nigel1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 07:56   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: California Coast
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 331
Posts: 680
The best way to use an autopilot is to pretend that you don't have one...
Get the sail plan set correctly and balanced so that the boat is tracking "pretty well" on it's own and then turn on the autopilot.
In heavy seas (going down wind) balancing the boat may involve slowing down and trailing a drogue.
Almost all well designed boats will be able to be trimmed to track well. Sail trim includes having the right size sails. The most common error is overpowering the rig with too much sail and loading up the rudder.
The boat should have a "slight" bit of weatherhelm. If the helm is loaded too much it is time to do one or more of the following...reuce sail, flatten the main, drop the traveler, adjust the outhaul, change headsail, adjust travelers, etc...
__________________
Liam Wald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 09:11   #26
Moderator
 
nigel1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Manchester, UK
Boat: Beneteau 473
Posts: 5,185
Thanks LIam,

I thought Mark was describing how the AP, and sail trim could be set up to allow the boat to pinch up going up the wave, and fall off going down hill
__________________
Nigel
Beneteau 473
Manchester, UK
nigel1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 09:45   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: California Coast
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 331
Posts: 680
Hi Nigel,
Greetings from Santa Cruz California.
I don't know how to do what Mark describes. I am not sure that it is possible unless you are going so slow that the boat stalls after climbing the wave and then falls off to gain momentum again.
Sounds tricky at best.
Liam.
__________________
Liam Wald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 10:05   #28
Senior Cruiser
 
Randyonr3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Beneteau FIRST 42
Posts: 1,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam Wald View Post
Hi Nigel,
Greetings from Santa Cruz California.
I don't know how to do what Mark describes. I am not sure that it is possible unless you are going so slow that the boat stalls after climbing the wave and then falls off to gain momentum again.
Sounds tricky at best.
Liam.
Might have the answer to that one... Awhile back I had problems with my auto helm, when I would crest a wave, the nose would start to fall off and with the wind in the sails, she'd sort of round up slightly and roll off the crest and then the auto helm would react and stear me back on course, so I was doing a sort of figure 8..
I went in and increased the responce time and she'd tighten up on the reaction time to fall off the wave true to the course..
so I would think, If you played with the reaction time or the responce of the auto helm, it would give you more of a sloppy reaction and roll off the wave..
Just an Idea............
__________________
Randyonr3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 11:48   #29
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
I thought Mark was describing how the AP, and sail trim could be set up to allow the boat to pinch up going up the wave, and fall off going down hill
No, sorry the AP is not smart enough to do that. Yes, it looks like thats what I said in my post. Sorry for the conflicting thoughts.

I like Liam's words:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam Wald View Post
The best way to use an autopilot is to pretend that you don't have one...
Get the sail plan set correctly and balanced so that the boat is tracking "pretty well" on it's own and then turn on the autopilot.
Feel by hand and then set the Auto Pilot so it can best emulate your course. The Smart Pilot program in the raymarine is meant to help by remembering the regular waves. I dont know how much it does, but it seems better after a few minutes. But in genteral an Auto Pilot has a iron heart, not an intelligent adaptdable one.

Damn pitty that
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 12:22   #30
Moderator
 
nigel1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Manchester, UK
Boat: Beneteau 473
Posts: 5,185
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post

Feel by hand and then set the Auto Pilot so it can best emulate your course. The Smart Pilot program in the raymarine is meant to help by remembering the regular waves. I dont know how much it does, but it seems better after a few minutes. But in genteral an Auto Pilot has a iron heart, not an intelligent adaptdable one.

Damn pitty that
Thats a relief, I thought I was really missing something fundamental there.
We have whats called an Adaptive Auto Pilot (on the tug boat, not the bene), which can work out whats going and adapts to anticipate wave and swell movement. Probably cost as much as my sail boat
__________________

__________________
Nigel
Beneteau 473
Manchester, UK
nigel1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
beneteau

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thinking of Buying a Lowrance HDS-5 Fishfinder / GPS / Chartplotter Bram Navigation 0 10-03-2010 15:29
Buying an Ex-Charter Beneteau 411 / Gibsea 43 pgmartini Monohull Sailboats 20 20-08-2009 23:24
Thinking of buying a Venture 21 - advice/comments needed outdoorsintexas Monohull Sailboats 5 30-11-2008 10:46
iam thinking of buying a first 47.7 advice please good or bad johnny47.7 Monohull Sailboats 18 03-11-2008 10:36
Thinking About Buying a Boat... newbie24 Great Lakes 3 23-09-2008 11:59



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.