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Old 12-02-2014, 14:04   #76
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Re: Thinking About Going to the Dark Side for a Girl.

"And yet, by compromise and working together, humans have achieved far more than lions ever will." Beverley


Bev, just for the sake of argument and perhaps some humor: Lions have inhabited the earth for 1 million years; "modern humans" about 200,000 years. And if you believe that "by compromise and working together" humans have achieved greatness you must have forgotten about: Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Hannibal, Ghenghis Khan, Attila the Hun, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Mao Zedong, Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler, Saddam Hussein . . . who have impacted Civilization but didn't know the word compromise--just read the histories of those who opposed them. Even the peaceful Gandhi didn't believe in compromise as you Brits must remember when he threw you out of India. Compromise? -- a word to be used among the polite, but not a practice of bad schoolboys. Good luck, good sailing, and good compromising. Captain Rognvald--archaic hominid.
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Old 12-02-2014, 14:12   #77
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Re: Thinking About Going to the Dark Side for a Girl.

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Originally Posted by chris_gee View Post
As you say you have had a lot of long term live in girlfriends.
And a few boats.
Finding the perfect boat or girlfriend isn't easy or even maybe that likely. What might be ok tonight may not be in the morning.
Let's say your boat would be better if .........
Now as a compromise which all boats are you could have a different mix.
Sure you might take into account the input of a partner to a greater or lesser extent, but there is an old saying don't change anything until you have had it a year.
I wonder how much weight you would attach to the assessments of someone with little or no experience.
On a practical basis if you are away for half the year or at least working intermittently, you have the issue of how she fits her career around that.
Secondly how does her idea of living aboard relate to how it will be?
For instance how much lying around on deck working on your tan would there be? Taking a turn standing watch will give more sun exposure than most want. These days I don't even take off my shirt much and it has been years since I did any sunbaking.
I would be inclined to try it out for a year or two and then see where you move from there.
I've been with her for a few years now and she has now committed to taking the leap to moving on. She has done a few cruises with me so she does have sometime sailing on my boat so her complaints are not completely unfounded in her own eyes. Obviously when she visits the marina is rather lively so she has that as a thought that it's like that all the time but most know it's not.

As for sun bathing she was the first girl I've ever taken out that actually sprawled out on the bow for hours on end.

As far as what she understands as the liveaboard life style I think the reality is setting in for her that things and stuff are out of the question once moving on if we want to cruise and live comfortably. I'd say as her being someone who used to partake in retail therapy regularly has realized things won't make her happy.

I unfortunately don't have in women in the area I'm at now for her meet and chat with that have taken to this lifestyle. We are sailing to Kemeh in a couple of months so I'm hoping to find and introduce her to some women there she can talk to.

I've also encouraged her to join this forum and ask questions but she really rejects technology more than most I've met.
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Old 12-02-2014, 14:57   #78
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Re: Thinking About Going to the Dark Side for a Girl.

Ah Beverly actually makes a very good point about the boat being BIG. Its important that the SO know how to sail or at least motor back to a slip, should the Guy get incapacitated.

A Big boat does make that harder to do. Personally getting the main up on a 44' boat would be a Bitch for me. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. Could I do it. Probably. Do I want to do it, not so much. But I could motor the boat back to a slip no problem.

Me I might suggest to the Op's SO to just try the boat for a few months. Oh say 6 months. No boat is perfect, that's for darn sure. It does take some adjustments, living aboard and not everyone can do it. But there are benefits too. The Alden is a lovely boat and has far more charm then a newer cat. But that's just me. I love the space of the cat, but not the plastic look. Just weird that way.

Consensus and compromise are great on land, but when things go pear shape is no time for discussion. Why Boats have never been run via Consensus. The SO needs to be informed of the pluses and minuses of a larger boat and the issues with say a B&G rigged cat over a more traditional rigged cutter sloop or ketch. Interior volume and a sun deck may be important, but she needs to be informed of the drawbacks too. I'm not so sure shes really up on what sailing as a couple entails. It's not all margarita's and cabana boys.....
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Old 12-02-2014, 15:27   #79
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Re: Thinking About Going to the Dark Side for a Girl.

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Ah Beverly actually makes a very good point about the boat being BIG. Its important that the SO know how to sail or at least motor back to a slip, should the Guy get incapacitated.

A Big boat does make that harder to do. Personally getting the main up on a 44' boat would be a Bitch for me. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. Could I do it. Probably. Do I want to do it, not so much. But I could motor the boat back to a slip no problem.

Me I might suggest to the Op's SO to just try the boat for a few months. Oh say 6 months. No boat is perfect, that's for darn sure. It does take some adjustments, living aboard and not everyone can do it. But there are benefits too. The Alden is a lovely boat and has far more charm then a newer cat. But that's just me. I love the space of the cat, but not the plastic look. Just weird that way.

Consensus and compromise are great on land, but when things go pear shape is no time for discussion. Why Boats have never been run via Consensus. The SO needs to be informed of the pluses and minuses of a larger boat and the issues with say a B&G rigged cat over a more traditional rigged cutter sloop or ketch. Interior volume and a sun deck may be important, but she needs to be informed of the drawbacks too. I'm not so sure shes really up on what sailing as a couple entails. It's not all margarita's and cabana boys.....
I agree sailorchic one can go too big. Again not going bigger here if I do it would not be more than 3ft bigger. As far as a 44 being to big to to single hand I beg to differ on the size of boat being the determining factor on ease of handling. I would agree a 44ft Alden is more to handle than a HC48 because it's a pretty responsive boat. As for my hauling up and down my main I doubt you'd personally have any trouble since she has in boom furling. If you follow the Vendee you see their yachts are 60ft granted they are highly qualified sailors but just to put size into perspective it all mostly has to do with design and less size of vessel. As for size and handling when I used to teach sailing I saw more accidents on J22's than the bigger boats we had at the center. In fact the last accident I had was on a boat 10ft smaller than my own. And I did have trouble regaining control of the boat in conditions my 44 would have been very easy to manage in the same exact scenario.

If I went out today with her and dropped dead she would have about the same luck on a 30ft boat as on my 44ft boat. She knows how to use the VHF and how to tell someone where she is. She knows to turn into the wind and drop the sails and she knows how to motor through waves. With that said before I'd take her out of reasonable helps range I would want her to have a lot more experience sailing.
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Old 12-02-2014, 16:08   #80
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Re: Thinking About Going to the Dark Side for a Girl.

Ah, a fancy boat with the furling main. Sweet! That would be lots easier for sure. I'm an old fashion girl it seems and still use lazyjacks myself. Plus I only have a 30' lift on the main.
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Old 12-02-2014, 16:13   #81
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Re: Thinking About Going to the Dark Side for a Girl.

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Ah, a fancy boat with the furling main. Sweet! That would be lots easier for sure. I'm an old fashion girl it seems and still use lazyjacks myself. Plus I only have a 30' lift on the main.
Hey sailorchic what really matters in the grand scheme of things is having enough to get out there.
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Old 12-02-2014, 18:22   #82
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Re: Thinking About Going to the Dark Side for a Girl.

A good exercise is to think of this in purely bussiness terms.

Is she willing to financially contribute to your cruising plans?
Has she shown the attitude to contribute serious sweat equity?
What is her credit rating?
Is she ambitious or satisfied in her career ?
Does her personal net worth offer her many choices in lifestyle?
Do you believe she would stand by you if you shipwrecked in a disgusting place?
Do you think marriage would change her demands of you?
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Old 13-02-2014, 05:16   #83
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Re: Thinking About Going to the Dark Side for a Girl.

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A good exercise is to think of this in purely bussiness terms.


What is her credit rating?

You know are first I thought the whole post was crap. But thinking about with no reaction factor and it makes a lot of sense. Since in most relationships later in life (after say 30) come with "baggage" that you get to partake in, and since they on average don't last, you really should consider this.

But I doubt very many do.
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Old 13-02-2014, 05:28   #84
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Re: Thinking About Going to the Dark Side for a Girl.

Even simpler than that sailorboy…

If 2 people are considering any long term relationship they need to ask themselves;
What am I bringing to the party??
What is the other person bringing??

Take the love, sex, emotional side out of the equation and see if they gel as a team.
Relationships are meant to grow and evolve, but only if the 2 people want to be on the same bus. (or boat)
If one expects the other to do all the work simply for the privilege of their presence, it is doomed to failure.
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Old 15-02-2014, 00:59   #85
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Re: Thinking About Going to the Dark Side for a Girl.

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Even simpler than that sailorboy…

If 2 people are considering any long term relationship they need to ask themselves;
What am I bringing to the party??
What is the other person bringing??

Take the love, sex, emotional side out of the equation and see if they gel as a team.
Relationships are meant to grow and evolve, but only if the 2 people want to be on the same bus. (or boat)
If one expects the other to do all the work simply for the privilege of their presence, it is doomed to failure.
Think of it in purely business terms and take the love and emotional side out of the equation? Both of us just shaking our heads. Yes, there is more to a relationship surviving than just love but taking the love out and turning it into a business situation isn't the answer either. I've lived the business, thinking way without the emotions and love. No thanks. I'd never go back to that way of life.

What disgusting place do you have him shipwrecking in?
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Old 15-02-2014, 02:40   #86
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Re: Thinking About Going to the Dark Side for a Girl.

I would call myself a romantic pragmatist .

Whilst all the gooey stuff is important, nonetheless so is the dull stuff that applies to any partnership.........basically boils down to are both parties bringing stuff to the deal that makes the pot bigger / better for both. That don't have to be all about money - but that always a big factor........otherwise the deal is not sustainable as eventually one or both gets attracted by a better deal.......

,,,,,,,likely a generational gap on both sides adding cash to a marriage! Me father always considered a woman working as a bad thing , me considers one who doesn't as a liability .
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Old 16-02-2014, 21:18   #87
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Re: Thinking About Going to the Dark Side for a Girl.

Dude, you should cruise the homeless shelters, those girls aint to picky.
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Old 17-02-2014, 01:51   #88
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Re: Thinking About Going to the Dark Side for a Girl.

Take her cruising for 6 months. Then she'll have a real understanding of what her needs are.

If she won't go 6 months on your current 44 - dump her. A 44 is big enough to "rough it" for 6 months
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Old 17-02-2014, 04:53   #89
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Re: Thinking About Going to the Dark Side for a Girl.

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Dude, you should cruise the homeless shelters, those girls aint to picky.
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Old 17-02-2014, 06:07   #90
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Re: Thinking About Going to the Dark Side for a Girl.

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I would suggest that if you want happiness in a couple, this attitude needs to go . . . .

So agree, it is ok to hold on to your needs but a new boat would also be her boat too as she would be involved in the selection. I think you need to answer to yourself, do you want a serious relationship?
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