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Old 12-09-2010, 18:17   #31
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Re re-sale values:

- the re-sale value of plywood might be good, but do note there is very limited demand for plywood sailing boats (unless they are daysailer, dinghies, etc..). Since the price is dictated by the play of demand and supply what I have seen is the plywood things with high asking and sitting on the market for ages (or the price reduced and then we cannot talk about good re-sale value).

Good re-sale values are - alloy, grp, some steel, some wood (incl. cold molded). Ferro-cement and plywood are not.

But maybe with things like the RM things will change.

b.
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Old 13-09-2010, 03:29   #32
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job for professionals in every sence

Unfortunately there are many bad stories in many lives.One of them is story what you tell us today, and that story is about how never to reach one personal dream, in this case building own boat.
You are right!
I have no experience about boat building, but all my live i have some kind of small factory and my own business.Today is same thing.I told you all of this facts because my live experience with many different kind of jobs and with many kind of people.All of this is very substantially because i know that this kind of project is very serious and almost is completely pointless to build ship like this alone.
I have lot of skills myself (electric, electronic,installing water and sewer, carpentry skills, welding...).I have also employees with many different skills, and a lot of professional tools...
On the end i also have good place next to wall of my workshop when i am intending to build temporary (thermo insulated)hangar for building.I also count on reasonable wages of our workers (2 us dollars per hour is fairly paid for Serbia, in my town).
I think that boat building is very serious job,and this is not job for only one person. It needs very different kind of skills an capabilities to work and finish in reasonable time.For me , three years to finish sail boat, like i want, is very reasonable period of time.
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Old 13-09-2010, 05:57   #33
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My two cents: Whatever you build will eventually need to be sold. You should be looking ahead now about that. Wooden boats will not have the resale of the other materials unless an incredibly high standard of build is attained and maintained. A high tech molded ply boat built with epoxy might be worth something but few of the others will.

If you really want to build something out of wood, as many of us do, find a bare FRP hull and get to it. This one decision, beyond all the others, will really make you money down the line, and get you over a big hump in the building process to boot.
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Old 17-09-2010, 12:17   #34
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APOLOGIES TO BRUCE ROBERTS

TODAY I WANT TO TELL YOU ONE STORY ABOUT THAT, WHAT CAN DO THE BAD INFLUENCE.

WE ARE HERE PRESENTS US WITH OUR NICKNAMES AND ONLY WITH WORDS... OFTEN, FOR THE PEOPLES WITH THE BAD INTENTIONS THERE IS GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO BE WHAT THEY ARE NOT IN REAL LIFE, AND THEY GIVE ADVICES...

LAST WEAK,I WAS ALLOWED TO MYSELF TO BE SO SUSPICIOUS ABOUT BUYING MY BOAT PLANES FROM THE BRUCE ROBERTS TO THINK THAT MAYBE HE IS NOT ONE OF WHOM IS REPRESENT AND SEND ONE MAIL WITH TERRIBLE CONTENT TO HIM,IN WHICH I TRIED SOMEHOW TO SEE IF HE IS REAL OR NOT.WHAT A GREAT MISTAKE.

WITH ONE WORD, I WAS INSULT THAT MAN, THAT EXPERT, SO, THAT HE WAS GIVE UP FROM OUR AGREEMENT ABOUT DESIGN CUSTOM PLANS FOR ME.THEN I WAS REALIZED HOW MUCH DID I GO WRONG...

HE RECEIVED MY APOLOGIES ONLY BECAUSE HE IS ONE GREAT MAN.

IN REALITY, WHEN I WAS ORDERED STUDY PLANS FOR BOAT,I GOT THEM SAME DAY AND NOT ONLY WHAT I ORDERED BUT FOR FIVE BOATS LIKE MY AND ONE GREAT E-BOOK ,,BUILDING YOUR OWN SAILBOAT,,.

WHEN I WAS PAY FOR MY CUSTOM PLANS FOR HIS CENTENNIAL SPRAY 38, HE
SEND ME THE STANDARD PLANS IMMEDIATELY WITH BONUS E-BOOK SAILBOAT.
TODAY, WE ARE IN THE CONTACT ALMOST EVERY DAY AND AGREE ABOUT MANY OF DETAIL ASSOCIATED WITH HIS DESIGN OF MY CUSTOM ORDER.

I CAN`T IMAGINE BETTER COOPERATION.THANKS BRUCE!

ON THE END,
I AM: DRAGOSLAV ERIC,
LIVE IN: SERBIA,
COUNTY :VOJVODINA,
I HAVE SMALL COMPANY: ,,WINDOORS,,
MY TELEPHONE NUMBER IS: +38163 518 636,
MY TOWN IS: VRBAS
AND MY ADDRESS IS: BLOK VASILIJA KOPRIVICE 18/8.


SO FOR NOW,REGARDS TO ALL, ERIC,
PS
OF COURSE, I WILL SEND YOU SOME PHOTOS WHEN IT COULD BE.
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Old 17-09-2010, 13:29   #35
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noisy Mediterranean nations

;-)))
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Old 17-09-2010, 13:35   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericdrag View Post
TODAY I WANT TO TELL YOU ONE STORY ABOUT THAT, WHAT CAN DO THE BAD INFLUENCE.


I CAN`T IMAGINE BETTER COOPERATION.THANKS BRUCE!

ON THE END,
I AM: DRAGOSLAV ERIC,
LIVE IN: SERBIA,
COUNTY :VOJVODINA,
I HAVE SMALL COMPANY: ,,WINDOORS,,
MY TELEPHONE NUMBER IS: +38163 518 636,
MY TOWN IS: VRBAS
AND MY ADDRESS IS: BLOK VASILIJA KOPRIVICE 18/8.


SO FOR NOW,REGARDS TO ALL, ERIC,
PS
OF COURSE, I WILL SEND YOU SOME PHOTOS WHEN IT COULD BE.
Eric, I respect you for your sincerity and honesty.

Do not believe everything you read on this, or any forum.
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Old 17-09-2010, 14:42   #37
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Having built all three of my cruising boats out of plywood, (two were WEST system), And sailed all over both sides of the Caribbean, from Trinidad to the Chesapeake... Pensacola to numerous Bahamas trips, I can offer the following: I have lived aboard and/or cruised for 15 years, but my 3 projects took 21 full time years between them. This was a 23' cat, a 28' tri, and our current 34' tri, Delphys. The boats will last pretty much as long as they are maintained, and I consider them vastly superrior to production versions of the same genre, except that the topsides are not as tough against hard dinghies. Other than that, our little Searunner is exactly the way we like her! So, it is worth it to us.

I would not expect to get your money back on resale, especially if you count your labor as having value, but this is not why one builds a boat. For a young person / couple, who can work full time, and be comfortable with a boat of about 35' or less, It is a viable thing to do. (IF they have the means, previous boatbuilding skills, and single minded determination) Otherwise... It's not for everybody. Even my little 23'er was more work than when we built our house! For a little daysailor, or occasional camper, Jim Brown / John Marples Seaclipper 20 trimaran is a size and design simplification that fits the skills, time, and budget of the average folks. This is where boatbuilding really makes sense!
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Old 17-09-2010, 16:05   #38
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Bruce Roberts has many satisfied customers, hundreds in fact all around the world, but also some that are disatisfied. He seems to have a much higher percentage in this latter regard then many designers, for some reason, which I will not go into publicly.

I'm very glad that you and he have worked out an arrangement that has you in great spirits. Maybe his company has made adjustments to the way they handle customer relations. It certainly needed to, as of a few years ago. In any case, congratulations and good luck on your project.
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Old 22-09-2010, 08:56   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericdrag View Post
I CAN`T IMAGINE BETTER COOPERATION.THANKS BRUCE!
I had a very similar pleasant experience with Bruce Roberts twenty something years ago – no I never built it; however, carried around the BR 53 plans (which for me at the time was a significant investment of itself) for over a decade or so, while real life intruded and I tried to sort through it – but that was no reflection on Bruce who answered my occasional inane queries promptly and cordially…

Being one of the best known, Bruce has many fans and detractors, but I’d guess he, like many who design for the amateur or low-volume builder get unwarranted negative press for all the dreams that went awry – having nothing to do with the architects/draftsman’s table. Expectation management is a real challenge in this arena, but almost any designer in this field is in the business of selling the pathway to dreams, and that is what they do – whether one competently follows the path is a whole different discussion (in Harry Callahan’s semi-immortal words; "A man's got to know his limitations..." – and “potential” as well, I’d suppose).


Best of luck !!!
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Old 28-09-2010, 21:43   #40
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Eric. You need to read this thread.

Slocum`s Spray - Boat Design Forums

I have experience sailing a Roberts Spray. I use the term sailing loosely, and really I mean motoring as a Roberts spray simply wont sail well. My suggestion is you QUIT WHILE YOU ARE AHEAD! Even if you cant get a refund on your plans take it as a lesson learned, because the 1000 euros lost will be nothing compared to the disappointment of sailing a Roberts spray. In short the boat is a lemon. My intention is not to beat down your dream but only try to save you from wasting time and money on building such a poor performing boat. A wise boat builder said "it costs no more to build a good design than a poor design". With the same amount of metal and effort you could build a Van de Stadt or something which will sail 100 times better.

More details are in the thread I linked.

Here is what I had to say in that thread.

The spray I have been sailing on was a Roberts Design and it seemed to have the hydrodynamics of a dead elephant. The highest it would point was a beam reach and it required a strong wind warning to move. The motion at sea was vomit inducing in any conditions due it is low speed. My mate quickly sold this lemon at a decent profit and has since purchased a Duncanson 35 so we can actually go sailing. If you like sailing you will hate a Roberts Spray.

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Old 29-09-2010, 07:53   #41
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Is the boat known as Colvin Gazelle a better thing than the Bruce Roberts' Spray?

Just asking because I like the looks of the Gazelle and they sometimes come on market at a good price.

barnie
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Old 29-09-2010, 14:52   #42
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I have not sailed one but I would bet money on it leaved a BR Spray for dead. Not that I am qualified to say this but the hull looks a lot better than the sprays bathtub shape. But I doubt it would sail upwind well. Maybe if you used a normal marconi rig instead of gaff or junk that would improve somewhat?

Colvin Gazelle - SailNet Community

Iso Information On Tom Colvin Gazelles - World Cruising and Sailing Forums
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Old 11-02-2011, 00:08   #43
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Pound for pound, plywood is stronger then steel and easily stronger then GRP.

funny
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:02   #44
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I think this thread is an example of people describing very different subjects (again). You can't just talk about plywood boats... the differences between methods are way too big.

On one end you have something like ply-on-frame building while on the other end you have wood-epoxy composite building which is more like the ultimate form of fiberglass boat construction. I would not want the former because of the maintenance issues, while the latter (using strips of Bruynzeel marine-ply, fiberglass and epoxy) is my first preference. Regular fiberglass, steel and aluminium all fall in between of these two options for me.

A composite hull can match the weight of an aluminium hull while being stiffer. It is very hard to beat it while maintenance is the same as for any other cored fiberglass boat.

In reality I only build a small sailing dinghy myself using the stitch & glass method (Mirror dinghy, I was 12 years old and loved it :-)

ciao!
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:30   #45
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Ply is great... especially if you use the top grades like Buyunzeel.... many boats in the UK have been built in ply... Waterwitch's, Eventide's, Wharrams and Woods cats.... to name but a few different types... thats not including the thousands of M/boats... if done properly and sheathed they'll last your lifetime if maintained well and with much less to worry about than the traditional wooden boat....
The boat below was a ply stitch and glue which would probably still be going strong had it not been smashed into by a drunk on a jet bike doing 40kts in San Antonio, Ibiza... pity the bas#*rd lived...
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