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Old 08-03-2013, 15:52   #31
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Re: The perfect offshore cruiser!?

Have fun boat shopping
A nice read about spade rudders, fin keels, and offshore design.
S/V Hawk

You probably already have this, Sail Calculator Pro v3.53 - 2500+ boats



How bout a hood design? Older little harbor 38
Trintella 42 love the Van De Stants

I second the Catalina too, lotta boat great design.

Cheers,
Erika
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Old 08-03-2013, 15:52   #32
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Re: The perfect offshore cruiser!?

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I know, isn't it crazy that they managed with a family of 5? I'm looking at the layout of the boat and can't see how they figured out enough storage for such a large crew.
The books are a must read for anyone going offshore, especially with children.

Paul Howard and Fiona McCall did a circumnavigation with 2 children on a 30 foot junk rigged boat.

All in the Same Boat: Amazon.ca: Fiona McCall, Paul Howard: Books
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Old 08-03-2013, 16:01   #33
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Re: The perfect offshore cruiser!?

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(...)

In terms of what I spec-ed: those who have actually cruised for some time, all agree in 2 things:
1) it gets rough in the ocean
2) statistically, 1/3 of passage making is light air sailing (< 10 knots)

Therefore physical attributes do mater a lot:
1) a high aspect keel / rig will be the difference between sailing, and spending your cruising kitty on diesel
2) a heavier boat means more motion comfort, which translates to a well rested (i.e., safer) crew, and a boat owner who doesn't cruise for a year and then sell the boat because they can't do the upwind leg to go back home.

(...)
I will agree with the rough / light point.

But, I will add:

1) Keel / rig aspects may go together, or not (there are some tall rigs with shallow keels and vice versa (more rare a bird, but does exist).

IF so: J Boats (and their clones) are the answer.

2) A heavier boat contradicts a boat that will sail well in light airs: there is a sweet point that one might like to accept. And again, everybody defines comfort in their own way: some will elect boats that have slow motion (and these will roll your guts out) others will elect boats that are pretty stiff: a shaker, but at least these will roll less.

If so: look towards Swans of the XX1 series - they will sail in light airs and go upwind if required, they have kind motion too.

b.
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Old 08-03-2013, 16:04   #34
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pirate Re: The perfect offshore cruiser!?

The one that grabs my nuts and say's... "Your mine..."
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Old 08-03-2013, 17:40   #35
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The one that grabs my nuts and say's... "Your mine..."
This from wicked pedia.
Perfect cruiser (also spelled bogieman, sailor women or perfect cruiser) is an amorphous imaginary being/vessel used by salesmen to terrorize children/ sailors into submissive behaviour. The monster has no specific appearance, and conceptions about it can vary drastically from household to household within the same community; in many cases, he/it/she has no set appearance in the mind of an adult or child, but is simply a non-specific embodiment of terror/pleasure . Parents may tell their children that if they misbehave, the bogeymans/salesman sailor will get them. Bogeymen may target a specific mischief &mdash; for instance, a bogeyman that punishes sailors who use bad anchors &mdash; or general misspell words, depending on what purpose needs serving. In some cases, the bogeyman is a nickname for the devil.

Bogeyman tales vary by region. The bogeyman is usually a masculine entity but......just guess that sailor man hopes its a feminine character unless he meant beer nuts.
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Old 08-03-2013, 18:10   #36
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Re: The perfect offshore cruiser!?

It's simply a question of how much you are willing to pay. If your budget is $2M you can get fairly close to perfection (at least for you) with a custom build. If your budget is $125K you will have to compromise.
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Old 08-03-2013, 19:52   #37
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Re: The perfect offshore cruiser!?

My wife and I are also shopping for an offshore cruiser. We have our sights set on PSC's from 37 to 44 but may rule out the 37 due to no separate shower and the miniature galley. Our main goals are to have a well-built yacht that is easy for one person (wife) to sail if need be. I would rather plan for the worse conditions rather than hope they never happen.
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Old 08-03-2013, 20:05   #38
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Plus one for having a separate shower. Because then uhhhh the shower is not attached. Which is better cause. Uhhh it must be better for some reason. Lets have a room dedicated to brief showers that need fresh water electricity and heat. Major drains on fuel and sailing. Great for adds promoted by cruising Satan's that prey upon people that want to be home while sailing.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:13   #39
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Re: The perfect offshore cruiser!?

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Lots of good ideas here, the older Bene Firsts seem good value for money too? Does anyone have experience in the First 405 or 38? They are similarly priced, how are they doing with storage, rough weather performance / offshore work?
For years we looked for a 38 or a 40 First but found nothing to our liking.. most all had been rode hard and put away wet so to speak.
and it was the writings of Liza Copeland that started our hunt for one. Up to then, we were small boat racers in the 20 foot range..
in that era of First series boats, you'll find the 38, 40, 405, 42 and the 456..
and all have the basic layout the same.. all performance offshore boats..
We happened to run across a 42 on a lake in Idaho and bought it sight unseen..
And I hear that all boats are a compromise..... Thats Crap.. I have 100% of what I was looking for in a boat.. and those that know me personally know I dont compromise for anything........
I wanted speed, agility, comfort, and style, and I know I got everything I was looking for.. 10 years on the boat and I still believe I made the right choice........
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:26   #40
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Re: The perfect offshore cruiser!?

I like older Firsts - we quite often beat newer, better boats, hands down, round the cans (well, guess who is driving).

But I would not take a First for an offshore job, cruising style - not if any sizable upwind rough water expected.

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:19   #41
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Re: The perfect offshore cruiser!?

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I like older Firsts - we quite often beat newer, better boats, hands down, round the cans (well, guess who is driving).

But I would not take a First for an offshore job, cruising style - not if any sizable upwind rough water expected.

b.
Wonder why you would say that. The first 38, 42, and 456,were designed for offshore competion in the admirals cup, the fast net being one of the races in the cup, and.the 42 took many first place positions in the cup. Going to weather, I been on many adesign and have raced for over 40 years, the first is the most comfortable going to weather I've ever been on.
And when it comes to bad weather, you got a.choice, haunker down and ride it out, or get the HELL out of there, I subscribe to the latter
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:09   #42
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Re: The perfect offshore cruiser!?

There is a misconception amoung cruisers or should I say wanabe cruisers that a performance boat is not suited tocruising due to its lightvweight style and its pounding over the waves.
If your boat is pounding, the fact is, you don't know how to sail it.
Performance hulls don't pound, their drivers do. Meaning when a boat pounds, its actually slowing it down, something the boat was definitely NOT designed to do, performance boats are designed to go throu the water with as little disruption as possible. Pounding would be non productive in race form
Watch any professional race crew on u-tube and you see little if any pounding, and comforts, again, if.its not comfortable, its not theboats fault, its the driver..
Comfort wise, designers spend thousands of.hours on race boats concerned about comfort,..,

Just a short story here,
I used to ride bicycles, thousands of.miles , and always kept a couple extra sets of wheel on hand as I would constantly be tweeking them out of alignment.
Had a new guy working my wheels on one of the qualifiers for RAAM, ,, put about 500 miles on a set when I stop at a checkpoint, remarked.to the guy how great his work was as after all the miles, the wheels were still in true, his remark back to me was that it wasn't his wheels, it was that I finally learned to ride a.bike.

So in the same sence, when you can take a boat out, sail it in any type of weather any type of seas and still have a comfortable ride, the you can actually say, you know how to sail,
But if all you have is excuses as why the boat is pounding or it won't sail to your expectations, maybe its not the boat at all and you need to take another look at yourself....
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Old 09-03-2013, 13:07   #43
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Re: The perfect offshore cruiser!?

I would agree with others that there is no perfect cruiser since we are all different and have different needs. You really have to talk budget for a specific recommendation. You mention that you want a performance cruiser. If the budget is big enough a newer, larger J. If smaller budget, an older, smaller S&S Swan, but the latter is likely to have been sailed hard and tends to have a lot of single berths which was a killer for my wife.

If you want an easy helm, the Hood centerboarders are great because you can use the board to do final trim. For heavy boats they are surprisingly good in light stuff because they have lots of sail area for boats of that era.

Good luck with your search. Just remember you don't need the perfect boat, just a really good one (there are many candidates) that you can afford and that turns your crank.
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Old 09-03-2013, 13:15   #44
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Re: The perfect offshore cruiser!?

I've seen people say that Bene's are only coastal cruising while I know several people sailing around the world in basic Bene's.. It all depends on the captain and possible crew and how they use the equipment.. I've seen crap vessels handles superbly by excellent skippers. While awesome vessels handled by dimwits and fails to leave the slip without incidents...
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Old 09-03-2013, 13:23   #45
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Re: The perfect offshore cruiser!?

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Wonder why you would say that. The first 38, 42, and 456,were designed for offshore competion in the admirals cup, the fast net being one of the races in the cup, and.the 42 took many first place positions in the cup.

Going to weather, I been on many adesign and have raced for over 40 years, the first is the most comfortable going to weather I've ever been on.

And when it comes to bad weather, you got a.choice, haunker down and ride it out, or get the HELL out of there, I subscribe to the latter
Yes, as you have noticed, I said : "... I would not take a First for an offshore job, cruising style - not if any sizable upwind rough water expected.

It is two different things to race a boat, or make a fast, if rough, passage and to make a comfortable offshore upwind work.

If you say a First 42 is the most comfortable thing you have sailed upwind then I say that's fine and the water might have seemed rough all right. I have sailed Swans of the same era and they were all far more comfortable upwind in rough seas than any First. Probably the best thing I have ever sailed upwind in rough weather was a Swan 43 of the earlier era (S&S) and then one of ultra modern racing boats - both long boats, narrow entry, but no flat areas forward.

I guess every person has their own motion/comfort preferences, hence no wonder some prefer Firsts, others will go in Swans.

BTW Many 'high motion comfort factor' boats, in by book, suck.

b.
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