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Old 27-12-2009, 17:14   #91
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Danial brings up a Good Point..
You don't see that too often.
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Old 02-01-2010, 17:15   #92
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Yep on the Hess, pity but attractive nonetheless… I just stumbled upon the Atkins Fore `n Aft Cutter (28’8”) plans, which although somewhat smaller than your Gilmer cutter, at between eight and nine tons the Atkins is right in the sweet-spot of where I’d like to be and seems vaguely reminiscent of both – albeit with a tad more svelte stern than the Hess…

I may have to think on this a bit…

See: http://www.atkinboatplans.com/
Wow, the Fore 'n Aft is my favorite boat. I live in the same town (Huntington, NY) that William Atkin's boat shop was when he built that boat.

It's bigger than my 23' Blue Moon. Do you belong to the Atkin group on Yahoo groups? You should check it out.
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:32   #93
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Hess, Atkins, Archer ... they are all fine, nearly perfect long range (if big enough) cruisers. They are, in my eyes, 'perfect, full stop' - if this is what we already have at hand.

Nearly, because their knock-offs ;-) (Valiant, Pacific Seacraft, Victoria, Rustler, etc) are actually even better for the same size.

Then, in the bigger sizes, one already has the displacement anyway so the hull can be designed to ride and drive better - so I would say a Deerfoot is cool but a Westsail the LOA of the Deerfoot is NOT.

(In the small sizes, a 28'-30' boat the hull lines of a Deerfoot is NOT, either.)

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Old 03-01-2010, 10:48   #94
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thinking about little boats and long distances;

Famous Small Boats

I read Gary Spiess, Patrick Elam, and Shane Acton with an eye towards what is involved in using a very small boat. Robin Knox johnson and Vito Dumas had interesting reports on sailing their vessels. Both boats were 30 ish foot double enders

The interesting thing is how each sailor adapted to the yacht.
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Old 03-01-2010, 11:22   #95
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Whoa !!!

Adventure July/August 2001 @ nationalgeographic.com

(from NormanMartin's link)

Now that one was definitely LONG RANGE. And way cool!

THX to Norman!
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Old 03-01-2010, 13:17   #96
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Thankyou all for your input, The hull I have come up with is a volumious medium displacement with a long shallow fin with centreboard, twin skeg hung rudders. The rig is intended to be a ketch with both masts of similar height.
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Old 03-01-2010, 13:37   #97
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If you encounter a red 12 m American yacht named "Flash Girl" in your neighborhood you might find common cause with the owner. My regards to him and his wife, too.
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Old 04-01-2010, 14:13   #98
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The hull I have come up with is a volumious medium displacement with a long shallow fin with centreboard, twin skeg hung rudders. The rig is intended to be a ketch with both masts of similar height.
Nice hull, my two cents:
- why twin rudders? (it is a narrow hull and does not look like it calls for two rudders), is it because you want to be able to dry her on a bank?
- the transom seems flush with DWL, with the flat sections aft, and in the cruising context (supplies, supplies, supplies) will she not squat?
- any reason she will not have the shieel-kieel rather than the centerboard?

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Old 04-01-2010, 17:54   #99
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Some good questions there.

Twin rudders because with twin skegs that are properly engineered it is possible to stand the boat up on any hard flat surface and also at any time at least one rudder is fully immersed and cavitation free this allows for smaller individual rudders and in this case a 4' draft which I consider a bonus in a cruising yacht.

There is a lot of reserve buoyancy in the aft sections so I think squatting is not a big issue. Though it is up to the individual sailing her to manage weight distribution wisely.

I decided on a centerboard, which will actually be a hydraulically operated dagger-board purely for performance. Most of the ballast will be in the board which will lower the CG considerablely and at the same time increase the draft to about 9 ft. With a scheel keel I would be looking at a 5' or 5'6" draft and a CG that would not be as low.
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Old 04-01-2010, 18:57   #100
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I decided on a centerboard, which will actually be a hydraulically operated dagger-board purely for performance.
You may be able to get good performance without the dagger board provided the keel is well designed. Unless you want to sail her on the ear.

You will not get the ultimate (AC way) upwind performance from a ketch anyway, (and this would be, I guess, probably the main reason to go for a sable dagger board).

The hydraulics used to lift the board may be a headache at times, so aim at a top-notch design and execution.

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Old 04-01-2010, 19:22   #101
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Yes a sloop would be more efficient upwind, however a well designed ketch need not be a slouch. My reasoning for going to a ketch rig is to spread out the sailplan into smaller more manageable sails, 350 sq ft is about as much as one person can handle when things start going wrong.

As to hydraulics I agree totally, it must be a well designed and bulletproof system with redundancies built in. But having run many yachts with hydraulics I do not see this as much of an issue.
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Old 08-01-2010, 19:46   #102
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Is that a 45' design (hard to read)? If so, I think it's a bit short for a ketch when you're looking for performance (50' minimum I'm told). I don't think you can get a big enough gap between the main and mizzen under 50' boat length and would opt for a sloop rig on that 45' design. I see no problems with handling that single handed, not even when racing.

I recently had a good look at a twin keel twin rudder design here in Panama and like it for standing on the hard and can imagine it's great for an expedition boat. You can just put it down anywhere. With a single keel I feel that the only reason for twin rudders should be their performance under way but at the cost of a more complex design.

The drawing looks a lot like an Ovni.

cheers,
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Old 11-01-2010, 00:27   #103
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pilot house anyone...

What boats do you admire ?
Valiant 47, Esprit 37...

What features do you like in existing designs ?
I am intrigued by the pilot house... Invariably my crew wants to huddle below when times are tough in the cockpit... Might be nice to sit in shirtsleeves and monitor the situation. workable windvane is a must in any case.

Not a fan of the windage a pilot house brings...

leaks?

splits the cabin up, this a good thing?

those that have a pilothouse - how much time is spent there vs elsewhere ?

The incessant noise outside might be lowered in the pilot house?
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Old 12-01-2010, 15:50   #104
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99% in the pilothouse, 1% in the cockpit when hand steering.

Much of this is because we are ketch rigged so no bimini in the cockpit.

During night or bad weather, the pilothouse is the best thing ever.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 22-10-2013, 22:39   #105
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Over many years and many miles I have pondered this question and have come up with many solutions. As I am now attempting to put pencil to paper it occured to me that it would be a good idea to ask the forum.

What do you look for in a long range cruising yacht ? My ideal?
-SS Hull/deck
-LiFe battery banks w/low volt protector.
-Ketch/cutter rig with double furling on headsails, boom furling elsewhere, Bermuda. I don't mind wood spars on a heavy displ. Such as this... Tabernacles keel stepped though...
-based on Atkin Vega plans, adjusted for SS build, encapsulated lead ballast.
-deck sheathed in tempered glass solar panels, with a grit cast into the surface
-active and passive good ventilation with well thought out airflow.
-small hatches
-Fore and aft bulkheads sealable if practical
-tow log generator, wind generator
-Power/load management system with min. 3 banks, sine wave inverter, ac load monitor
-min. 800l fuel, 400l water carried just above ballast in low tanks
-coal/coke/wood stove amidships, gravity diesel heater fore
-servo/manual adjustable vane steering And maybe a wheel pilot as aux.
-slower turning engine, in drip pan, feather prop, caged or better yet dc electric
-all teak interior, I hate mahogany
-well divided storage space and ample chart storage
-normal standup shower
-pressure &foot pump hot/cold water, and seawater washdown and at galley
-life line guys port/starboard running full length
-marine air for those horrid tropic days in port/at anchor
-Bow thruster tube integral, bow thruster
-hydraulic/mechanical windlass, sealed forecastle with access hatch, piped properly, setup for 2 ground tackles
-external chainplates, Norseman fittings
-heavy Dacron sails
-watermarker 45 gal/hr
-2 double, 1 single (fore) berths, vberth should be useable in moderately heavy seas in that design...
-A good nav station aft, stbd near the companionway, deep freeze, cold store underneath.
-The standard array of electronics, all networked nmea 2000. With collision alarm, and auto collision avoidance would be very useful, servos for the vane adjust controllable from remote inside, same with autopilot, at nav station.
-an onboard dive compressor sure would be handy
-mechanical/engine room aft... I could go on....if I had a million dollars...

What boats do you admire ?
-The one above
What features do you like in existing designs ?
I do love the feel below decks in an aft cabin... But not the most practical design in the 40 ft mark. If I was to build over 55ft. I would maybe go for a centre cockpit
What features do you dislike in existing designs ?
Most....
-balsa cored decks, airex cored hulls, wood, Steel after the fist 5 yrs... Sloop rigs on boats over 35 feet... Most fin keels, multi hulls, twin keels, water ballast, big windows...
Why ???
-personal experience, what I have learned from others, and just distrust (airex)
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