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Old 21-12-2009, 14:06   #61
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Hardley a dig but one of you have the wrong idea about reality. Check out former co-worker, Jesse's, long range ocean boat.

Reality Sailing

Sugar scoop transoms or narrow modified full keels aside. How about a sink that drains on both tacks and berth that does not feature a drip overhead?

Norm
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Old 21-12-2009, 15:21   #62
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Arggghhh - agree 100% with what said above by others - repairability of equipment - priceless.

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Old 21-12-2009, 15:22   #63
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What do you look for in a long range cruising yacht ?

My 'non-negotiables':
  • Under 32'
  • Long bowsprit
  • Strong Sampson post or equivalent
  • Full keel
  • Outside and inside ballast combo
  • Transom hung rudder
  • Big aft cockpit that only holds a small amount of water (sounds like a contradiction, but some boats can meet it.)
  • Small, strong cabin top with opening ports
  • deck-level mast access (i.e., you don't need to stand on the cabin top to get to the mast)
  • wide side decks
  • NO roller furling (hate, hate, hate it)
  • easy reefing
  • self steers with simple sheet-to-tiller gear
  • no diesel stink (a total deal killer for me)
My preferences:
  • wood
  • gaff rigged
  • ketch or yawl
What boats do you admire ?
  • Tom Gilmer 'Blue Moon' (own one!)
  • Atkin 'Fore and Aft' (lust for one)
  • Atkin Ingrid (I'd go with the cutter, for this one)
What features do you like in existing designs ?
(see above)

What features do you dislike in existing designs ?
  • 'Systems'... these are the proverbial 'holes' that sailors throw money into, IMHO
  • Roller Furling... every serious problem I've ever encountered on a boat involved a jammed roller furler. I'm scared to have one on my boat.
  • Fin keels and free-hanging rudders... yes, I know they are fast, but I've got a friend that lost 2 seasons of sailing after bending his rudder post on a rock. Plus I don't think they are a good idea for a long range cruiser... I like the idea of solid steel or lead under my keel.
I guess I'm a bit old fashioned, but I'm okay with that

- John
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Old 21-12-2009, 19:32   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnlikelyVoyager View Post

My 'non-negotiables':
  • Under 32'
  • Long bowsprit
  • Full keel
  • NO roller furling (hate, hate, hate it)
  • no diesel stink (a total deal killer for me)
  • wood
  • gaff rigged
  • ketch or yawl
Roller Furling... every serious problem I've ever encountered on a boat involved a jammed roller furler. I'm scared to have one on my boat.

Fin keels and free-hanging rudders... yes, I know they are fast, but I've got a friend that lost 2 seasons of sailing after bending his rudder post on a rock. Plus I don't think they are a good idea for a long range cruiser... I like the idea of solid steel or lead under my keel.
OK. Your choices are your choices. I respect.

My view at the same issues is:

> 32' is too small for long range - too little load carrying capacity (unless you sail alone),

> Long bowsprit - too tricky to climb to take down canvas,

> Full keel - yes, if you mean IP or HCH, NO if you think Tahiti, Collin Archer type,

> NO roller furling - 100% disagree - just too risky to go forward in bad weather, you can always go for a furler that can be simply dropped to the deck!

> no diesel stink - now watch out for this cargo coming your way when you are becalmed,

> wood - too much maintenance .....

> gaff rigged - is Bermuda/Marconi not easier to hoist/lower?

Last thing - fin rudders vs. barn doors - you can also damage the stern mounted barn door quite easily - e.g. when reversing.

So, I agree 100% with you choices and I find them aesthetically pleasing. But I do not think they go under the 'ultimate long range'.

barnie
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Old 21-12-2009, 19:43   #65
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Nice Blog John!
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Old 21-12-2009, 19:56   #66
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Non-negotiables

Last summer we encountered a fellow with a Bud MacIntosh sloop similar to what you describe. He built it over a seven year period. If I gestated my boat for seven years, I'd be full of never-going-to-negotiates, too.

I am surprised no one has driven home the idea that the perfect long range cruiser allows one to actually go long range cruising. I think I am going to explore the limitations of voyaging without a sink that drains on port tack. You see, I am very anxious to go out again.

And, yes, the blog is nice. My X brother in law works/worked at Condon. He's a pretty good guy. I live near Boulter.

I must step up the quality of our blog!

Tx
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Old 21-12-2009, 20:17   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
OK. Your choices are your choices. I respect.

My view at the same issues is:

> 32' is too small for long range - too little load carrying capacity (unless you sail alone),

> Long bowsprit - too tricky to climb to take down canvas,

> Full keel - yes, if you mean IP or HCH, NO if you think Tahiti, Collin Archer type,

> NO roller furling - 100% disagree - just too risky to go forward in bad weather, you can always go for a furler that can be simply dropped to the deck!

> no diesel stink - now watch out for this cargo coming your way when you are becalmed,

> wood - too much maintenance .....

> gaff rigged - is Bermuda/Marconi not easier to hoist/lower?

Last thing - fin rudders vs. barn doors - you can also damage the stern mounted barn door quite easily - e.g. when reversing.

So, I agree 100% with you choices and I find them aesthetically pleasing. But I do not think they go under the 'ultimate long range'.

barnie
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Old 21-12-2009, 20:19   #68
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Nice Blog John!
Thanks!
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Old 21-12-2009, 20:28   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanMartin View Post
Last summer we encountered a fellow with a Bud MacIntosh sloop similar to what you describe. He built it over a seven year period. If I gestated my boat for seven years, I'd be full of never-going-to-negotiates, too.

I am surprised no one has driven home the idea that the perfect long range cruiser allows one to actually go long range cruising. I think I am going to explore the limitations of voyaging without a sink that drains on port tack. You see, I am very anxious to go out again.

And, yes, the blog is nice. My X brother in law works/worked at Condon. He's a pretty good guy. I live near Boulter.

I must step up the quality of our blog!

Tx
Yup... 7 years is a long time. Too long for me. It's worth building small boats so you can understand how wooden boats work, and so you can take care of a bigger boat, but building a big boat hardly makes sense in this environment. There are just too many nice boats on the market for less than the cost of materials.

Unless you just like building boats, of course. Then it's definitely worth it. And some guys like building better than sailing, which I totally understand. Boat building, or rather, wood working is really addictive. I like sailing more, at the moment.

I have 3 kids in college, so if I want to do some cruising, I need a boat that won't break the bank. I could wish for a bigger boat while I stay on shore, but it's more fun to enjoy the one I can afford.

Gotta get up to Boulter one of these days. I hear they are good!

-- John
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Old 22-12-2009, 04:18   #70
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I think I am going to explore the limitations of voyaging without a sink that drains on port tack. You see, I am very anxious to go out again.

I can tell you that in 17,000 miles of water sloshing in the port side of the sink on port tack there is only about 1 cm of it and the waves bump it down the plug 'ol after a while.

Mind you we can't normally see how much water is in the sink cos its full of dishes!

Get out and get going again The whole world is waiting for you


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Old 22-12-2009, 06:45   #71
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I love roller furling when it works but hate it when it jams. I have had about equal doses of each.

To me, this "system" is a classic illustration of love-hate.
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Old 22-12-2009, 08:42   #72
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I love roller furling when it works but hate it when it jams. I have had about equal doses of each.

To me, this "system" is a classic illustration of love-hate.
My new boat has an interesting 'furling' system... The foresail (from end of bowsprit to top of mast) is set flying. I.e., it isn't hanked on to the forestay. There are 'halyards' at both ends of the leach... one from the end of the bowsprit to the foredeck, and one from the mast. That way, you can hoist the sail without crawling out on the bowsprit. It's a simple, easy-to-use system.

It's not a big sail, anyway (the boat is only 23' long), so not too much trouble to set or strike.

I gave up on furlers after a boat I was crewing on almost went on the rocks because of a big 130% Genoa stuck open in a line squall. One of the scariest moments of my life.

I don't mind the extra work it takes to furl a sail... I'm out there for the exercise, anyway!

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Old 22-12-2009, 08:46   #73
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I was sorry to hear Tom Gilmer died yesterday. I've had two of his boats... the Blue Moon and a Southern Cross. Both boats will get you anywhere you dare to go.
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Old 22-12-2009, 14:49   #74
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Old 23-12-2009, 07:50   #75
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I was sorry to hear Tom Gilmer died yesterday. I've had two of his boats... the Blue Moon and a Southern Cross. Both boats will get you anywhere you dare to go.
Indeed, his Allied Seawind (30') was the first fibreglass sailboat to circumnavigate (“Apogee”).

Thomas C. Gillmer,98, renowned Naval Architect and a 70-year resident of Annapolis, died Dec. 16, 2009.

Thomas C Gillmer | Obituaries and Death Notices (www.HometownGlenBurnie.com - The Maryland Gazette)

http://www.alliedseawindii.org/gillmer/Gillmer.html

Sailboat Designs of Thomas*Gillmer
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