The new Amel 50

[DDabs]

Originally Posted by JohnT

Jacobs Bros. Since 1974

wow.... that Good Hope 56..... holy hell what a boat

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boom23

European Yacht of the Year 2018

Luxury Cruiser Category Winner - Amel 50

Jury Comments:

Axel Nissen-Lie, SEILmagasinet, Norway
When safety is the main priority and comfort and luxury are second, this is the ideal blue water. ...
...
Pasi Nuutinen, Vene, Finland
Safety is the greatest luxury on long journeys - and that is what Amel 50 offers. ..
...

If they think that way they should have chosen the Halberg Rassy 44 (also in contest) and not a boat with a low AVS (for a blue water boat) a big inverted stability and a average safety stability.

I made a post on my blog where I explain why I am saying this. It seems that the boat testers cannot see besides what they experience and off course, they did not experience extreme conditions the ones where those stability items would be very important.

In fact it is not needed to experience that, it is enough to know how to interpret the boat data. I guess that it is why they stop publishing stability curves on their boat tests.

[boom23]

Polux,

I will trust the Amel company, with their long blue water experience, and Olivier Racoupeau, with his extensive boat design experience, before I listen to someone's opinion on the internet.

You made your point. People in the industry have a different opinion. Face it. Move on. Or better yet, buy a Rassy 44. Please...

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Polux

If they think that way they should have chosen the Halberg Rassy 44 (also in contest) and not a boat with a low AVS (for a blue water boat) a big inverted stability and a average safety stability.

I made a post on my blog where I explain why I am saying this. It seems that the boat testers cannot see besides what they experience and off course, they did not experience extreme conditions the ones where those stability items would be very important.

In fact it is not needed to experience that, it is enough to know how to interpret the boat data. I guess that it is why they stop publishing stability curves on their boat tests.

I think Amel is designing a boat for an affluent buyer that wants to cruise the Med or Caribbean and cross the oceans in low latitudes. It's an extremely big 50 and there is lots to like about it, especially the Amel quality so it doesnt surprise me that they are getting traction with this design. I remember you giving a strong thumbs up for the new Beneteau Sense and it's certainly not in the same quality league as the Amel 50. The Amel is a push button boat with tons of safety features not found on most other boats and I think their buyers really like those features. If a buyer wishes to own the more traditional Amel and cruise rougher waters they can choose the 55 which is also a nice boat.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boom23

Polux,

I will trust the Amel company, with their long blue water experience, and Olivier Racoupeau, with his extensive boat design experience, before I listen to someone's opinion on the internet.

You made your point. People in the industry have a different opinion. Face it. Move on. Or better yet, buy a Rassy 44. Please...

Not on the Industry.

Racoupeau has the opinion that if the boat has the stability to sail well and has the stability to pass RCD class A with some margin then any more ballast, even if it betters the AVS, the final stability and diminishes the inverted stability does not compensate regarding what is lost: a small loss on light wind sailing.

He is consistent in considering that a boat a bit above RCD class A requirements on stability is good enough. The new Wauquiez 42 PS, designed also by him has also a low B/D if compared with other luxury boats.

Other designers don't agree and don't follow the same policy in what regards luxury boats and final stability. The Amel among boats on that class is an exception in what regards final stability and B/D. if you look at other boats of similar quality that are considered bluewater boats you will see that the vast majority has a much higher B/D, a better AVS and a smaller inverted stability, boats like Oyster, Malo, Najad, Halberg Racy, Cigale, Discovery and many others.

This is not an opinion it is a fact.

Of course, you can agree with Racoupeau in what regards what is a good final stability, AVS and inverted stability for a bluewater boat or you can agree with all the other NAs that designed the other boats that I mentioned above.

Most will say that the ideal for a bluewater boat is a minimum 120ºAVS. I don't believe the Amel comes close to that. With an AVS like that you will have a small inverted stability and a good final stability.

Of course you don't need to believe me. Ask Amel to give you the stability curve of the Amel 50. I doubt they will be interested in making that public, contrary to other brands that publish them as part of the boat information.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

I think Amel is designing a boat for an affluent buyer that wants to cruise the Med or Caribbean and cross the oceans in low latitudes. It's an extremely big 50 and there is lots to like about it, especially the Amel quality so it doesnt surprise me that they are getting traction with this design. I remember you giving a strong thumbs up for the new Beneteau Sense and it's certainly not in the same quality league as the Amel 50. The Amel is a push button boat with tons of safety features not found on most other boats and I think their buyers really like those features. If a buyer wishes to own the more traditional Amel and cruise rougher waters they can choose the 55 which is also a nice boat.

The Beneteau sense is not new, the 50 has already 10 years and the Sense 50 is the boat that suits your description. It is not a boat that sailors think as a bluewater boat even if certainly it is an offshore boat.

What I like particularly on the Beneteau Sense is the interior layout that was at the time very innovative and still is, with a cockpit level closer to the saloon level than on any other monohull. Perfectly adequate to "buyer that wants to cruise the Med or Caribbean and cross the oceans in low latitudes".

The Amel is considered by most, including those two judges I quoted, as a bluewater boat and that means that besides being a very well built boat is also a boat with a particularly good seaworthiness and that implies a specially good AVS and safety stability, a thing that some older Amels in fact have but not the new ones.

Don't mistake me, the Amel has a lovely interior and it is not worse in what regards stability than most mass production boats and it is better built, perfectly adequate for what you have mentioned: "a buyer that wants to cruise the Med or Caribbean and cross the oceans in low latitudes"

I was only saying that who had chosen that boat because "safety is the main priority" or "Safety is the greatest luxury on long journeys - and that is what Amel 50 offers" and have done so over the Halberg Rassy 44, it is because they or, did not look at the stability data or they don't know how to interpret it.

Sure they could have chosen the Amel 50 over the HR 44 for many reasons but not for the ones those two mentioned.

[robert sailor]

I think safety is a big deal with Amel owners...water tight bulkheads is a very nice safety feature, kinda wish that our boat had those. Everything from thru hulls to rudder dams are safety features that few boats have. I also like the way the hull and deck are joined and glassed over on both sides...that's an especially nice feature that separates a boat like this from mass produced boats that have bulkheads glued to interior liners. Amel really does build an exceptional yacht. I can't debate that 120 degrees righting moment has been the accepted standard for offshore boats but to be honest I don't know what this boat has, I can't find it. Obviously it meets or exceeds the CE standards which we both know are minimal. We also know that a smaller boat with 120 degrees would not be as safe as a larger boat with less so that's up to the NA to determine what is safe and that I guess is what your real concerns are. I don't know what percentage of the ballast is near the bottom of the keel which has a large impact on righting moment and the super large hard dodger can also have an impact but i just dont know the answer. It's a very interesting direction for Amel as they have been the slow and steady builder but none of us can carry on without change. I think they see a real opportunity to build a boat that is exceptional in quality and safety features for the type of sailing they believe their client will partake in and the 50 is it. Personally I really like the boat, it's perfect in many ways..I think it would bring out the pride of ownship that is only associated with owning one of the best. Now back to my Moody...R

[boom23]

Polux,

Please help Amel and Racoupeau, and all the major magazine judges of European Boat of the Year, because they do not know the definition of a blue water boat. (Yes, I am being sarcastic...)

I will not argue with you because I am not qualified. I have no idea what your qualifications are, but you seem to believe that you know better than some of the industry leaders. And I am talking about respected companies like Amel and naval architects like Olivier Racoupeau.

What do they know? Right?

Please enlighten them.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boom23

Polux,

Please help Amel and Racoupeau, and all the major magazine judges of European Boat of the Year, because they do not know the definition of a blue water boat. (Yes, I am being sarcastic...)

I will not argue with you because I am not qualified. I have no idea what your qualifications are, but you seem to believe that you know better than some of the industry leaders. And I am talking about respected companies like Amel and naval architects like Olivier Racoupeau.

What do they know? Right?

Please enlighten them.

You don't need to be qualified. Just ask Amel the stability curve of the Amel 50 and I will explain to you what will mean the differences regarding the one from the Halberg Rassy.

As I have told you most NAs designing a boat that it is not very limited in what regards budget, a boat designed as a voyage boat, will opt, for that type of keel and draft for a considerably bigger B/D, meaning more ballast.

More ballast on a boat is expensive and that's why cheaper boats have normally a smaller B/D than more expensive yachts.

You don't need to be qualified, just have a look at the 50 to 58ft B/D of other similar quality boats and compare it with the Amel 50 28.5% B/D considering a bulbed keel with 2.15m draft.

I will give you a help:

CIGALE 14 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
https://www.maloyachts.se/malo-yachts-54/
DISCOVERY 55 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
NAJAD 570 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
https://www.boat-specs.com/hallberg-...lberg-rassy-55
OYSTER 575 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
Contest 57CS | Exquisite Dutch semi-custom yachting
EUPHORIA 54 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
HYLAS 56 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
NAJAD 505 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
OUTBOUND 52 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
SOLARIS 50 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
SWAN 53-2 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
X-55 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Note that bigger boats normally have a less bigger B/D (for the same draft and type of keel) and this are almost all bigger boats than the Amel 50, most of them with a bigger draft (needing less B/D for the same RM) but I cannot find any of them, I mean boats with a similar build quality of the Amel, with a B/D as low as the one of the Amel, even closer, except off course, the other new Amel.

Note that the ones that are close have considerable more draft and the keel CG lower.

Do you think that all those that designed those boats don't know what they are doing and the the Amel got it right, in what regards stability for a bluewater boat?

[DDabs]

Someone has a little too much time on his hands

[boom23]

Polux,

In case you missed it...

I will trust the Amel company, with their long blue water experience, and Olivier Racoupeau, with his extensive boat design experience, before I listen to someone's opinion on the internet.

You made your point. People in the industry have a different opinion. Face it. Move on. Or better yet, buy a Rassy 44. Please...

[JC Reefer]

I think the guy who designed this yacht came from Benetau. I couldn’t find the name but the delos crew interviewed him at the factory when the 55 was built. If anyone sees the episode please feel free to keep me Honest. Either way Looks like Bene to me.

Kinda has me singing that Dixie chicks song... la da da da da WIDE OPEN SPACES!!! You know the one.

[Eleuthera 2014]

Hello Boom23,

Reference post #74...

I am moored next to an Amel SM2K in the Las Perlas Islands on my way to Galapagos. We sailed in from Panama yesterday. My friend's boat has the optional "shaft generator". I arrived at the anchorage and had to run the genset for 30 minutes due to large leccy use on passage. He arrived here with fully topped batteries as the system provides him with lots of Ah when sailing at more than 6 knots.

If it is an available option on the Amel 50, I would consider this seriously rather than faffing around with wind generators.

Opinion only :-)

[CatNewBee]

Well, you have either to sail or to anchor in a tide stream area to produce power with the propeller.

It depends, if you are a cruiser, that loves to stay at anchor for a long time and go small steps around the world, it would be not sufficient. If you are a circumnavigation racer doing one passage after the other, well, this one is for you. Plenty of power...

[robert sailor]

These type of systems are very cool if they are made to be somewhat bullet proof. When crossing oceans I find that my solar system doesn't produce that much as the sails often shade the panels yet on these same crossings you are using twice as many amps as you would at anchor as your running radar and autopilot etc.so it means your running your engine or genset everyday adding more heat to an already hot cabin. It's certainly an option I would consider if it works well and is well made.