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Old 26-05-2014, 16:07   #106
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Re: The Difference Between an Inshore and Offshore Boat. Would you take a Boat l...

61--good story.
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Old 26-05-2014, 16:18   #107
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Re: The Difference Between an Inshore and Offshore Boat. Would you take a Boat l...

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Occasionally, keels do "just fall off" or come loose due to faulty design.... like on our previous Hunter.
Most incidents like this one are the result of multiple factors. When the Atlantic 42 was lost a while back there were long threads like this one about it sliding down the back of a wave resulting in the loss of steering. But lots of folks thought the boat had hit something before that and when it reached the crest of a wave a fifty knot wind stopped it dead in its tracks and the rudders could not cope with turning in to bows moving at twenty knots.

While we will probably never know just what happened it seems unlikely to me that the keel fell off with no contributing factors.
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Old 26-05-2014, 16:33   #108
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Re: The Difference Between an Inshore and Offshore Boat. Would you take a Boat l...

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Not the way it works around here!
Yes but you have a personal slave who inhabits you body who will grind bottom paint and absorb forum abuse! Speaking of which mine is complaining after grinding varnish all day.
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Old 26-05-2014, 16:35   #109
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Re: The Difference Between an Inshore and Offshore Boat. Would you take a Boat l...

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Yes but you have a personal slave who inhabits you body who will grind bottom paint and absorb forum abuse! Speaking of which mine is complaining after grinding varnish all day.
doesn't really absorb much forum abuse anymore, there's a button to fix that
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Old 26-05-2014, 18:15   #110
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Re: The Difference Between an Inshore and Offshore Boat. Would you take a Boat l...

What is the correct maintenance method for keelbolts if racing?

If you take a light weight boat and crank on the backstay from what I read it can and apparently does bend the hull somewhat, if you have a rigid pan in the middle of the boat there will be stress areas which with enough movement will crack.

So 1 year after your first race you could have crevice corrosion = 1 year maintenance plan on pulling and replacing for guaranteed safety.

Just asking, it seems like a crazy piece of engineering

EDIT: serious teams would be doing this and that's ok. I suppose I should alter the above to seeming a crazy piece of engineering for poorer people.
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Old 26-05-2014, 18:36   #111
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pirate Re: The Difference Between an Inshore and Offshore Boat. Would you take a Boat l...

Knew some guys in Poole bought a UFO34.. after a couple of seasons racing they had to pull the mast and dig out the shattered step and replace it.. to the best of my knowledge they did not check the keel.. went S for the Med at the start of the new season so don't know what happened to the boat after that..
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Old 26-05-2014, 18:38   #112
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Re: The Difference Between an Inshore and Offshore Boat. Would you take a Boat l...

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Originally Posted by sparau View Post
What is the correct maintenance method for keelbolts if racing?

If you take a light weight boat and crank on the backstay from what I read it can and apparently does bend the hull somewhat, if you have a rigid pan in the middle of the boat there will be stress areas which with enough movement will crack.

So 1 year after your first race you could have crevice corrosion = 1 year maintenance plan on pulling and replacing for guaranteed safety.

Just asking, it seems like a crazy piece of engineering

EDIT: serious teams would be doing this and that's ok. I suppose I should alter the above to seeming a crazy piece of engineering for poorer people.
My guess ,, any annual haul out is a good idea to check bolts torque if the boat is raced hard , outside keel to hull joint...if all is fine, thats all.
If the boat run aground maybe a good idea to have a quick haul out to check for damage... some hig tech racers need more than a good lookout at the keel for period time , i mean , things like the maxi Rambler!!!
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Old 26-05-2014, 18:53   #113
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pirate Re: The Difference Between an Inshore and Offshore Boat. Would you take a Boat l...

Ouch...

Monday August 15th 2011, Author: James Boyd, Location: United Kingdom
George David's supermaxi Rambler 100 has capsized between the Fastnet Rock and the Pantaenius Buoy, the offset mark. According to a statement issued by the RORC, "the Irish Coastguard services are co-ordinating the rescue. The Baltimore RNLI lifeboat is on the scene . Two Sikorsky helicopters have been scrambled and an Irish Naval vessel is en route to the scene of the accident."
Thankfully all 21 of Rambler's crew have been rescued. More information will be forthcoming soon.
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Old 26-05-2014, 18:59   #114
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Re: The Difference Between an Inshore and Offshore Boat. Would you take a Boat l...

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Ouch...

Monday August 15th 2011, Author: James Boyd, Location: United Kingdom
George David's supermaxi Rambler 100 has capsized between the Fastnet Rock and the Pantaenius Buoy, the offset mark. According to a statement issued by the RORC, "the Irish Coastguard services are co-ordinating the rescue. The Baltimore RNLI lifeboat is on the scene . Two Sikorsky helicopters have been scrambled and an Irish Naval vessel is en route to the scene of the accident."
Thankfully all 21 of Rambler's crew have been rescued. More information will be forthcoming soon.
Is that one of those new fanggled combination bow and bow sprit with a non smooth entry.
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Old 26-05-2014, 19:06   #115
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Re: The Difference Between an Inshore and Offshore Boat. Would you take a Boat l...

Wow what a nice boat

Lifeboat I mean
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Old 26-05-2014, 19:19   #116
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Re: The Difference Between an Inshore and Offshore Boat. Would you take a Boat l...

Exile-
Directed to the OP's comments and assumptions, not you.

As to maintenance records, I'd be surprised if British rules don't require an investigation including that, when lives are lost. Or if there aren't lawsuits, as well. Maybe one of the Brits here knows for sure.

Incidentally, folks who think 10th century technology (nuts and bolts) may be worth reconsidering, might reconsider GLUE. That's right, glue, adhesives, that's what holds the wings on combat aircraft and other highly stressed creations these days. And the oft-maligned 3M 5200 has been used to attach keels (drop keel, clean out, bed, rebolt) and it is supposed to ensure that even if the bolts later fail totally, the keel isn't going anywhere. Rebolting is just done really to give the 5200 a chance to cure.
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Old 26-05-2014, 19:37   #117
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Re: The Difference Between an Inshore and Offshore Boat. Would you take a Boat l...

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Exile-
Directed to the OP's comments and assumptions, not you.

As to maintenance records, I'd be surprised if British rules don't require an investigation including that, when lives are lost. Or if there aren't lawsuits, as well. Maybe one of the Brits here knows for sure.

Incidentally, folks who think 10th century technology (nuts and bolts) may be worth reconsidering, might reconsider GLUE. That's right, glue, adhesives, that's what holds the wings on combat aircraft and other highly stressed creations these days. And the oft-maligned 3M 5200 has been used to attach keels (drop keel, clean out, bed, rebolt) and it is supposed to ensure that even if the bolts later fail totally, the keel isn't going anywhere. Rebolting is just done really to give the 5200 a chance to cure.

That's very interesting. As a layman, I would think it would be the other way around, i.e. the 5200 is only there to reinforce the bolts! Only goes to show how judicious 5200 should be used in more routine applications, if at all. I must admit to getting a degree of comfort from it applied to my thru-hulls, but that's probably just psychological since there's other stuff that would work fine w/o so much overkill.

But isn't there a half-life to all of these adhesives (and polysulfides), even when underwater and thus not exposed to UV?
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Old 26-05-2014, 20:03   #118
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Re: The Difference Between an Inshore and Offshore Boat. Would you take a Boat l...

"But isn't there a half-life to "
You'd have to ask 3M about that. AFAIK many adhesives are "forever" if properly applied and cured. I've got a tool that was epoxy repaired in the late 60's, and the epoxy is still 100% solid.
Once they cure they become "plastic" and there's some complaints about plastic in landfills taking a thousand years to degrade. So...call the maker if you need to find out what can be used for a "permanent" repair. After all, the hull is just epoxy with fibers in it, too.
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Old 26-05-2014, 20:22   #119
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Re: The Difference Between an Inshore and Offshore Boat. Would you take a Boat l...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
...3M 5200 has been used to attach keels (drop keel, clean out, bed, rebolt) and it is supposed to ensure that even if the bolts later fail totally, the keel isn't going anywhere. Rebolting is just done really to give the 5200 a chance to cure.
Surely you don't believe this--that all those keel bolt installations and repairs were unnecessary. All the engineering and expense that goes into making sure the keel won't fall off, wasted?
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Old 26-05-2014, 20:24   #120
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Re: The Difference Between an Inshore and Offshore Boat. Would you take a Boat l...

Quick story, sometimes I'm an idiot. I ran into a submerged piling at 7 knots, pitched her up close to a foot, nary a scratch. Another time I got lost in a harbor and into a rock garden, backed out using the rudder to fend off the boulders, no harm. PO of our small boat put a dent in the keel somehow, 6" long and maybe 1" deep.

These were all obviously inshore incidents. So, in my experience, inshore is more dangerous (to the boat) than off shore, where I've never hit anything, (but I did give a scalloped a hell of a scare once.)

None the less the boats took care of me in my ignorance and sloppy handling and we (boat and I) both live to sail another day. These were steel boats, full or fin keel.

Not taking sides here, just saying this is my experience.

One of the things I'm reading here makes me think that these light weight constructions are OK until they get some age or take a hard grounding, that they are kinda delicate like.

I'm converting my keel to integral fuel tanks, keeps the rust down, and you'll know where I sunk from the slick! Just joking, but it does make for a double hull construction.

But, each to their own. Peace!
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