The Death of the Ketch ?

[GaryMayo]

Originally Posted by BillAU

A Ketch is a nice looking vessel but surely the cost for new sails ads to them not being as popular as they once were, for instance, what would be the cost for a set of new sails for a 45' cruising Ketch and what would it cost to replace the rigging, when due, in either SS or Gal'...Not cheep I'm guessing

Does 400 square feet of sails on a Ketch cost any more than an equal amount on a sloop on one less sail? I would think the price would be pretty close.

Rigging on a ketch would be about twice that of a single mast sailboat, you are correct. So over twenty years on fresh water, my rigging costs me an extra two cents a week, or whatever the exact number is. No deal breaker.

The only head scratcher I have found so far is where does one find shade in the cockpit at warm moments? Too many damn wires everywhere for a traditional bimini. Lost one umbrella overboard last year.

To see a ketch on the wing is surely worth the extra two cents.

[Nicholson58]

COSTS:

The Main rig is like a sloop. Add in the mizzen; mainsail and staysail. The rigging is realtively small. With a cutter rigged main you may NEVER change a sail.

I put up the sails in the spring and take them down when the boat comes out. In 4 years, we have never pulled a sail down - only furled.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

COSTS:

The Main rig is like a sloop. Add in the mizzen; mainsail and staysail. The rigging is realtively small. With a cutter rigged main you may NEVER change a sail.

I put up the sails in the spring and take them down when the boat comes out. In 4 years, we have never pulled a sail down - only furled.

I've read this several times without understanding. Are you saying that your main and mizzen furl in the mast? ...you never "change" a sail,- by this, do you mean that the selection of which you furl is your adaptation for different conditions? (This is what I do on my ketch most often.) I assume you have a cutter ketch, but what do you mean by a "cutter rigged main"?

[Calypso52]

Originally Posted by BillAU

A Ketch is a nice looking vessel but surely the cost for new sails ads to them not being as popular as they once were, for instance, what would be the cost for a set of new sails for a 45' cruising Ketch and what would it cost to replace the rigging, when due, in either SS or Gal'...Not cheep I'm guessing

Since you asked, $4,425. for Calypso in 2008 with swaged fittings on top and Hayn HyMod on deck. I thought very reasonable.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Calypso52

Since you asked, $4,425. for Calypso in 2008 with swaged fittings on top and Hayn HyMod on deck. I thought very reasonable.

This sounds way to low for the sails and rigging. Were you speaking about replacing shrouds only?

[Calypso52]

Yes.......

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by Calypso52

Since you asked, $4,425. for Calypso in 2008 with swaged fittings on top and Hayn HyMod on deck. I thought very reasonable.

Thank you Calypso52,
Very reasonable indeed me thinks...Even allowing a price rise of 30% for todays, 2013, costs...$4,425 + 30% = $5,752.50.
I see you reside in the States, did you buy in the States? If you/we were to buy the sails and rigging (shrouds only) today here in Australia, I'm guessing the price would be double or tripple that $5,752.50
Almost forgot...How often would you replace your sails and shrouds? Perhaps I should have asked...How long is a piece of string

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by CaptForce

I've read this several times without understanding. Are you saying that your main and mizzen furl in the mast? ...you never "change" a sail,- by this, do you mean that the selection of which you furl is your adaptation for different conditions? (This is what I do on my ketch most often.) I assume you have a cutter ketch, but what do you mean by a "cutter rigged main"?

In-mast manual furling at the Mizzen. This is really easy witha winch handle.

In mast electric at the main with manual over-ride. I can't tell you how easy this is.

ProFurl 52 at the forestay. This is the "classic" with manual drum.
ProFurl 42 at the cutter stay. Also "classic".
Both forestays are operated from the center cockpit using the running backstay self-tailing winches or secondary or primary winches. The primary is electric. We use a Milwaukee 1/2" drill motor with 28 VDC battery and winch drive to bring in the jibs. The forestay has a Quantum fusion membrane 135 and the cutter stay carries a storm jib to the 2nd spreader and short foot.

The main also has a storm staysial seperate track. I've never had to use it.

There is a mizzen staysail halyard and two spinnaler halyards and spare jib halyard.

We only use the kite if the wind is less than about 12 knots.

Camper & Nicholson 58 - 1984. Most ketches use a smaller rig than the sloop version. My cousin had a cutter-sloop version (sister-ship) of ours. Our main masts were identical. I attached the sales borchure images. You have to love the shot of several 58's together. You can see in the profile picture that the ketch is a sloop witha mizzen added on. I did note to my wife that the boat was missing som of the original deck equipment shown in the one photo. She said its still all there - just remember the picture was 1984.

[Hudson Force]

Nicholson58, Thanks for the details about your beatuful boat. I'm a little more labor intensive with putting them out and putting them away, but I've smallerr sails to deal with. The "cutter rigged main" was puzzling me, but I see that that was just the cutter rig in front of the main mast,- I was trying to figure out what you meant by a cutter rigged main sail! 'troubles of online communication.

[Greatketch33]

Those folks who own ketch boats tend to be very loyal to these designs. With such loyalty I find it difficult to believe that the title Death of the Ketch would ever be true.

Comparison of cost between sails, rigging, and other equipment of sloops and ketches can be an argument for any two boats, i. e., 16 foot day sailor and 42 footer. Money is money, and people purchase what they want and can afford.

I have found sailing the ketch rig much easier to handle for single sailing. I am no longer a racer, and prefer to cruise on the ketch.

[Hudson Force]

Maybe it was stated here earlier, I'm not prepared to read through the 300+ entries, but another strategy of the ketch rig is to lower the center of force on the sail area in order to accomplish suffient righting arm with less draft. This allows gunkholers, like myself, access to much more cruising area and isolated protected anchorages. I notice with Nicholson58's main mast at the same height as the sloop rig, this is not always the case; however, the Camper Nicholson does have the centerboard to allow less draft. Nobody has a boat that can do everything, but the ketch rig does allow for some clearances above and below.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by CaptForce

Maybe it was stated here earlier, I'm not prepared to read through the 300+ entries, but another strategy of the ketch rig is to lower the center of force on the sail area in order to accomplish suffient righting arm with less draft. This allows gunkholers, like myself, access to much more cruising area and isolated protected anchorages. I notice with Nicholson58's main mast at the same height as the sloop rig, this is not always the case; however, the Camper Nicholson does have the centerboard to allow less draft. Nobody has a boat that can do everything, but the ketch rig does allow for some clearances above and below.

]


We have a huge area to help compensate for a massive displacement. In big wind we shorten the main or loose it. The cutter jib is tiny and the mizzen can also be let out part way. I can reach with the 135 jib alone up to 29 apparent.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

............ In big wind we shorten the main or loose it. ..........................

This seems to be a common strategy for skippers of ketches. We rarely reef, but just drop the main and sail with jib and mizzen only too.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Greatketch33

Those folks who own ketch boats tend to be very loyal to these designs. With such loyalty I find it difficult to believe that the title Death of the Ketch would ever be true.

Comparison of cost between sails, rigging, and other equipment of sloops and ketches can be an argument for any two boats, i. e., 16 foot day sailor and 42 footer. Money is money, and people purchase what they want and can afford.

I have found sailing the ketch rig much easier to handle for single sailing. I am no longer a racer, and prefer to cruise on the ketch.

Trouble is outside of one or two designs, you'd be hard pushed to buy a new ketch.

Dave

[bobconnie]

Well theres not as many folks that can afford a new boat of any type then there are folks that can buy a used ketch or sloop !! So saying ketchs are dead because they cost to much to buy new is sorta lookng at things backwards !! For those that want a new ketch theres always bilders out there that will bild them !!!If ya can afford it anythings possible !! We just bought a used ketch, cus Connie and I can sail her by ourselfs without the help of powerd winchs and such !! and have the room we like for others to come and vist and to be comfortable! I don't think ketchs will ever die out!! As folks learn that for daily cruiseing a ketch is easier and safer to sail with a ketch with the smaller sails, makeing everything less work and safer for short handed sailing ! Just our thoughts on a sail plan to cruise a lot !!