The Death of the Ketch ?

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Zee, is because you say lots of nonsense stuff around, Multi kecht, a mizzen and all the related gear is litle $$$, my Formosa sail in 80 knts with mizzen and jib up, you know and i know that a Formosa is a Pig to sail , no doubt he is brilliant in other aspects ,but not in sailing perfomance,
Anyway hard to beat a sloop or cutter in windward work , dont take it personal is just a opinion.

i never said anything about ailing yketch to windward--i said exactly opposite--GENTLEMEN AND LADIES NEVER SAIL TO WEATHER.

I AM DOING THIS CURRENTLY. IF YOU DONT LIKE WHAT I SAY--COME OUT AND DISPROVE ME.


neilpride---
i love my sailing pig. is awesome. i am not a racer nor do i wish to be one of those. i cruise my boat within limits --i get winds that are waaay big and unpredictable--lol--i sail pacific at present--i sailed gom already and am on my way back there--over 10,000 miles in last 3-4 yrs. is just a drop into bucket...i will have more miles in a few more..but who is counting.
i didnt say my boat would beat out a sloop or cutter-- you do not know how to read well. you also decide what i mean rather than what i say--is best to read and understand my exact words as those words are exactly what i said and what i meant both in one saying. you were not in my boat whn we were inn the winds. you do not know what i have sailed thru and in. you therefore, have nothing to say about that. you can always come out and sail exactly where i am and where i say i sail in the winds i sail.....in the mean time-- i do state what happens to us here and nothing else--if you cannot get with that, do not further abuse me or those who were with me in those situations.

ps--i never said i sailed 80 kts in my formosa, is stoopit thing to say.if my typos let that be thunk--mebbe ye need to place a punta in my sentence. i said 8.4 kts in 60+kt winds, documented. i have stated this repeatedly in many different threads in many forums. stop abusing and start READING. mebbe that can be done correctly????

i know exactly what my boat is capable of and what she will do----i am not a racer so i donot abuse my boat.

and, for the record-i can only state that which i KNOW due to having done it. if you do not believe that--try it yourself--do not abuse folks just because you donot see what is done and being done.

just because you took your formosa out in slight breezes doesnt mean everyone else is that way also--there are some boats ned a lil breeze to get going and to be able to steer--formosa/ct/seawolf are some of these. many marques do not ster or sail well under 10 kts--not just formosa, so might want to try again. when comparing boats, do not forget about the loose nut behind the wheel--some sailors do not like fair weather and do well in a lil more swarthy wind.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by zeehag

people who race, follow racing and do desk jockeying will never see the reasoning behind split rigs. only a trolling desk jockey would say that out loud. get real. i am in the here and now--where are you???? definitely not out seeing real life.

...Zee...Thank you for pigeon-holing people on this forum. At least you could of added a few Ye's and nay's in the put down to make us feel we are belittled by an experienced pirate. We all stand in the wake of your greatness. I am not worthy...I am not worthy...I am not worthy...

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by Bash

Some would argue that 80% of cruising is reaching, but I have not found this to be true in terms of my own experience where I always seem to have the wind on my nose or down the back of my neck.

Is it just me?

No. That's characteristic for sailing in the SF estuary and "up" and "down" the west coast.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Bash

Some would argue that 80% of cruising is reaching, but I have not found this to be true in terms of my own experience where I always seem to have the wind on my nose or down the back of my neck.

Is it just me?

You mentioned one time that they called you Bash for the return trips from Mananaland, bashing North I think. They should call me "On the nose". It seems no matter where I want to go the wind is always straight on the bow...no...it's not just you.

[zeehag]

wind on nose is why there is such thing as tacking.

i didnt and dont pigeonhole folks--but when more than one is abusive i will direct something to the mess of em--you werent abusive, cs--you werent included in the rant. sorry ye feel this way this time.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by neilpride

you know and i know that a Formosa is a Pig to sail

OMG...Someone actually said it!!!...

[markpierce]

This couple will be sailing their ketch to Hawaii, and then "wherever", leaving the SF Bay Area this month. They have two spinnaker poles which they use to fly two jibs opposite each other for running downwind.

[Randyonr3]

Zee,
Not trying to put a bug in your bonnett, but, Made the trip up to the San Juans recently from SF and the wind was on our nose most of the time.. would hate to miss the cruising we did up there because we dont sail to weather...

And I think you keep forgetting, many of us here on the forum have been on and off and back on from befor you came aboard.. we know where you are and your travels from your posts and the last major trip you made was from SD to Mas.. 10,000 miles in the last 3 to 4 years.. Nope, dont think so.

[chriss747]

The OP offered an empirical observation: There are fewer ketches being constructed today. No poster seems to disagree with this.

Many posters have offered theories to explain this observation:
1. Increased cost and maintenance of additional mast, rigging, sails
2. Better performance of sloop (or cutter)
3. Ease of handling sloop (or cutter) with modern tech
4. Others . . .

Without offering alternative theories to explain the observation, each of these theories has been decimated by die-hard ketch sailors

So, I ask of you ketch sailors (here's looking at you zee), why then are there so few new ketches being built?

[markpierce]

Obviously, the majority of new-boat purchasers value the more-available, cheaper, simpler, generally faster sloop, especially if interested in club racing, over the ketch's individually-smaller (easier to handle) sails and multiple sail cominations.

[David_Old_Jersey]

I think this thread qualifies us to have a Ketch sub forum........

.....Just sayin'

[SkiprJohn]

Originally Posted by markpierce

This couple will be sailing their ketch to Hawaii, and then "wherever", leaving the SF Bay Area this month. They have two spinnaker poles which they use to fly two jibs opposite each other for running downwind.

Two whisker poles and two jibs for downwind is not an uncommon thing (twin jibs). I hope to see them in Hilo soon.
Beautiful boat.
kind regards,

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I think this thread qualifies us to have a Ketch sub forum........

.....Just sayin'

Subs are Ketch rigged?

[micah719]

G'day chriss747...welcome aboard, and thanks for getting the thread back down from the ceiling.

I think markpierce hit the treenail on the head, so thanks to him too.

Is the ketch dead? Not as long as there is one with its bottom in the water and not rotting at the moorings.

Is there a best boat for every purpose? No.

I like the idea of being able to sling a 4wd snatch strap between the masts to bombard sloops with rotting potatoes, but that's just me.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by chriss747

(...) So, I ask of you ketch sailors (here's looking at you zee), why then are there so few new ketches being built?

You can be looking at whomever you please, Sir ;-) and here comes my attempt at an alternative answer:

99% of boats today are not bought by sailors nor for sailing. They are built accordingly to the mass tastes and so that the profit is maximized by the builder.

I believe that if you deducted the 99% of boats that are purchesed by buyers' spouses and that spend 99% of their lives tied to the dock, you would quickly discover that ketches are still popular among sailors.

Proof: go to any place where cruisers congregate (Las Palmas, Panama, Bay of Islands), count the ketches.

Cheers,
b.