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Old 02-09-2015, 16:44   #406
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

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Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
By the way, MacGregor is making a 70' ketch, with carbon masts, in Costa Mesa as we speak.
Any snaps available ??? In Europe we don tknow MacGregors... we only know here McGyver...

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Old 02-09-2015, 18:09   #407
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

I feel that there is a much higher percentage of ketches voyaging. I heard that there are about 10,000 yachts voyaging at any time. That is only a tiny percentage of total yachts. Of the remainder of all other sailboats, many are owned by; first-timers, serious racers, coastal cruisers and day-sailors, marina queens. These folks are not likely to be interested in ketches, their advantages, the extra cost. In fact, the advantages offered by a ketch are likely disadvantages to these people. I wouldn't buy a Maserati to deliver the mail.
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Old 02-09-2015, 18:34   #408
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

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In fact, the advantages offered by a ketch are likely disadvantages to these people. I wouldn't buy a Maserati to deliver the mail.
Ketches, Yawls, and Schooners make my heart beat faster. They are soooo damn stunning, be it under sail or at anchor. Sloops are for kids!
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Old 02-09-2015, 19:04   #409
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The exposure on the ketch rig boat is wonderful, wish there was equal exposure on the cat ketch rig. ;-)

I chose the cat ketch rig so one can tack by merely turning the wheel.
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Old 02-09-2015, 19:40   #410
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

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Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
Ketches, Yawls, and Schooners make my heart beat faster. They are soooo damn stunning, be it under sail or at anchor. Sloops are for kids!
Yeah, right, PortCM... definitely for kids...

Jim
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Old 02-09-2015, 19:44   #411
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

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Originally Posted by Greatketch33 View Post
The exposure on the ketch rig boat is wonderful, wish there was equal exposure on the cat ketch rig. ;-)

I chose the cat ketch rig so one can tack by merely turning the wheel
.
It's a fun thing, indeed!

Also, the self-tacking jib. If memory serves, Morris yachts up in Maine also offers a self-tacking jib. Fun stuff.
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Old 02-09-2015, 19:49   #412
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

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Yeah, right, PortCM... definitely for kids...

Jim
Jim, you mean, "they're not" for kids?
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Old 02-09-2015, 21:36   #413
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Vertical Backstay

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I really like the idea!

Is there a purpose behind the aft staysail being stood off the mast? Why not just run the stay parallel to the mast edge rather than using a spreader to make the leech vertical?
If that stay (backstay) were run 'parallel to the mast' it would NOT exert a back force to offset the forestay's force. In fact it preferable needs to come off the masthead at an angle close to that of the forestay.
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My masthead backstay then passes over an aft jumper strut that redirects its force down to the base structure supporting the mast.

[IMPORTANT NOTE] This backstay that originates at the masthead DOES NOT reattach to the base of the mast itself, but rather to a structure of the vessel, …and preferably to the structure that accepts the compression loads of the mast to the vessel.]
The Ketch-Rigged Cat
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Old 02-09-2015, 22:05   #414
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Looks & Examples

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Brian, everyone's taste and aesthetic senses have been developed throughout their lives, both from formal education and from personal experience, and thus they vary widely. I am not learned enough to discuss the NA aspects of this design, but with all respect to your skills as a designer, to my eyes it looks awkward, unbalanced, clunky, and in fact, well... ugly. I can see why many folks would shy away from it.
I was quite pleasantly surprised when I took this small model into the Miami boat show back in 2005. A lot of folks never even realized the mast was leaning forward until they did a much closer inspection. The feeling was it 'looked somewhat normal' from a distance.
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Have any such designs actually been built, and if so, how did they work in the real world? If there were enough practical advantages demonstrated, one might be tempted to overlook the aesthetic difficulties (if one found them) and consider the aft mast more seriously. I suspect that similar views were expressed when the jib-headed mainsail started appearing amongst the gaff riggers...
Jim
Here is a gaff rig guy who just converted his vessel to an aftmast (not quite like mine)
Aftmast rigs??? - Page 51 - Boat Design Forums

A couple of these HK 40 were built over in Thailand
HK40' - Power Sailing Catamaran.
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Old 02-09-2015, 22:14   #415
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And a wind tunnel testing I was just made aware about a week ago,...not a ketch, but a confirmation of my double headsail arrangement.

Wind tunnel and CFD investigation of unconventional aftmast rig
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Old 02-09-2015, 22:19   #416
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

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I was quite pleasantly surprised when I took this small model into the Miami boat show back in 2005. A lot of folks never even realized the mast was leaning forward until they did a much closer inspection. The feeling was it 'looked somewhat normal' from a distance.
Brian, I was actually referring to the monohull shown in the post. To my somewhat jaundiced eye, your cat design looks way better than the mono in the sailplan views.

And of course, drawings (to the non-artistic eye) often fail to render what one will experience when looking at the real thing, or even a realistic small model.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 02-09-2015, 22:31   #417
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Monohull Versions

Yes the monohull version looked a little more 'weird', but I was really looking forward to combining that rig's low leeway inducing force to the asymmetrical twin keels on the hull. I really think she would have made a good sailer.

I have in the back of my mind an A-framed such rig mounted on a monohull motorsailer such as this Rhodes 44
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Old 02-09-2015, 22:38   #418
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Why termed a 'single masted ketch'

from another subject thread on this forum...
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Why is it called a ketch rig? I thought ketch rigs were two-masted with the aft mast being the shortest. Am I wrong?
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Quoted right out of my website
Sail Propulsion - Revisiting a Mast-Aft Sailing Rig
"So what did I come up with? Lets call it a marriage between a cutter and a ketch without the mainsail.

...Adding a mizzen sail to one of the backstays turned the boat into a ketch without the addition of another mast and its associated rigging. This increased my total available sail area on this single-masted rig. A ketch rig divides the sail area up into more manageable size sails, and it produces a rig with a lower center of effort (less overturning moment) than a sloop of the same sail area."

And technically even though I don't have a second mast, the mizzen sail is attached to a member that is ahead of the rudder post.

I'll bet you might find this 'ketch rig' easy to use in a 'day-sailing' situation:
The Ketch-Rigged Cat
"You know I can still imagine sailing a big 65-foot catamaran with this rig right off the mooring, and back to the mooring, without the engine, by myself, with so little effort that I might take it out having only a few spare hours to kill, ..or a daysail."

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Old 03-09-2015, 03:06   #419
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

wowh.... lots of new input over night :-) Maybe we can keep it with little bit more structure ???

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The exposure on the ketch rig boat is wonderful, wish there was equal exposure on the cat ketch rig. ;-) I chose the cat ketch rig so one can tack by merely turning the wheel.
In the sub-division "Multihulls" is going a discussion specifically about "The Ketch-Rigged Cat" :-)
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Old 03-09-2015, 08:34   #420
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I think the discussion about ketch rigged boats is lively. This is a great post to learn and share.
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