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Old 30-12-2012, 09:44   #316
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

is easy to solo a ketch. i do it when i want to. mine is 41 ft .....
the ketch rig sailors keep to one side of zihuatenejo bay, the sloops and cutters seem to stay on the playa de los ropas...across from us..more pricey there, we have the less pricey places cornered.....
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Old 30-12-2012, 10:15   #317
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

Cabo Rico and Chuck Paine are introducing a Centre Cockpit Ketch version of the Chuck Paine design CR56
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Old 30-12-2012, 10:17   #318
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

cabo ricos are excellent and awesome boats...

there is still a ct54 for sale in la cruz--is in cruising condition, and only ceased cruising at thanksgiving, 2012......niice perry design cruiser with an awesome galley and layout.
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Old 30-12-2012, 10:23   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post

My main is 80 feet and the mizzen is 48. No Triatic, Stays are 3/4 inch. Does that count?

We are out of the water as of Monday. Our last cruise was a cross-lake dash to Milwaukee. Its about 68 km. We had a nice northy wind for an east to west and west-east ride. Our peak speed by GPA was 11.4 with about 9.5 average under mizzen, miz-staysail, main, jib and cutter staysail. The return started under Spinnaker, main, Miz staysail and mizzen. Both transits finished with sharply increasing winds under headsails alone and 10 knots boat speed. The marina was empty and nobody to collect fees. . Great town, great restaurants, good beer and brew-pubs, great ride. Nice season ender.
Thanks for your practical and descriptive posts regarding sail planning for your boat. Easy to read and understand. I am a lazy sod and probably will never go multi mast but it is interesting to read about it.

In regards to mizzen stay sail I am confused about how the tack is attached. You say you haul the tack to windward as the wind goes abaft - this makes sense to project the sails leading edge. Is the tack not attached to the centerline of the boat on a hard point like a jib? Sounds like it is attached to a cleat on the windward side. You say you fly it in lighter winds but I am wondering how the luff stays tight.
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Old 30-12-2012, 10:45   #320
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

dang that is a lot of area--my main mast is under 50 ft in height, and my mizzen is comparatively shorter....perfect for anywhere.
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Old 30-12-2012, 12:54   #321
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Quote:
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Cabo Rico and Chuck Paine are introducing a Centre Cockpit Ketch version of the Chuck Paine design CR56
The CR 56 is indeed a gorgeous and capable sailboat. As I recall hull No 1 did the Transpac and came in 7th overall and second on handicap, despite being fully fitted out for cruising.
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Old 30-12-2012, 14:56   #322
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

John Leather, author of the classic "The Gaff Rig Handbook", describes the ketch rig as "the snuggest and most easily handled of all rigs". This is because the total sail plan is split up with lots of sails, so handling any one sail is easier than it is on other rigs because on average the sails are smaller (and lighter).

But the other big point of difference, from the design point of view, between a sloop and a ketch rig is that the center of area on the ketch rig is much lower than that of the sloop. The ketch's lower center of (sail) area means that it is not necessary to have a deep keel to keep the boat upright and moving forward. So for boats sailing in shoal draught areas, the ketch rig was ideal because it allowed a shallow keel, and so it was used on working shoal area fishing boats before the advent of motorized fishing boats.

The sloop came into being once people started racing sailboats for fun. As race courses involve an upwind beat, racers switched to sloops because they went better to windward (the sail design develops more lift). The sloop is a taller rig, and so it needs a deeper keel. A sloop rig doesn't go downwind as well as a gaff rig, so it needs a spinnaker.

So a ketch rig is good for a hull with a long shallow keel, to sail in shoal draught waters, as well as to cross oceans sailing with a wind behind the beam. As experienced sailors on long passages find it more comfortable to sail with the wind as opposed to against it, they try and time their passages so they are sailing with the trade winds, and so a ketch rig is ideal.

Sloop rigs are designed for racing. Ketch rigs are designed for working and cruising. And they look pretty good too!
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Old 30-12-2012, 16:42   #323
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

Yesterday, I spent some time helping a new boat owner learn to sail his ketch rigged catamaran....now there's something you don't see every day.
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Old 30-12-2012, 20:02   #324
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I'm still searching for a savvy ketch sailor to wonder by and show me a thing or three about sailing a ketch. So the offer still stands for this coming spring, anyone on the upper chesapeake that wants to take me along on a ketch as free crew or go for a sail on Nirvana I could sure use the education!
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Old 30-12-2012, 20:42   #325
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

Penelope is a CT41 ketch. On the west coast, so can't help you sail. But I can say.....we've played with this boat more than any other. Go out in mild conditions. Raise sails. See what happens. Drop the main and see how she handles jib and jigger (mizzen). It doesn't matter. Play. We did the Newport to Ensenada race....had almost no wind as we approached Ensenada.......did the best we could just trying different sail combinations......ended up with drifter (as jib), double reefed main (seemed ridiculous but otherwise it flopped around too much) and mizzen. We don't have a mizzen staysail. Would need to rig a halyard and some turning blocks and cleats. A friend's boat had one....looked complicated......probably isn't but we're not there yet.

Did I say play?
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Old 30-12-2012, 21:17   #326
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Thanks for your practical and descriptive posts regarding sail planning for your boat. Easy to read and understand. I am a lazy sod and probably will never go multi mast but it is interesting to read about it.

In regards to mizzen stay sail I am confused about how the tack is attached. You say you haul the tack to windward as the wind goes abaft - this makes sense to project the sails leading edge. Is the tack not attached to the centerline of the boat on a hard point like a jib? Sounds like it is attached to a cleat on the windward side. You say you fly it in lighter winds but I am wondering how the luff stays tight.
Exactly correct on the tack. If you read my post I noted that the tack is moved port or starboard according to wind point. There are two permanent tack lines run to deck cleats at the port and starboard rails. the halyard is tightened according to the wind point. If you ever flew a Blooper it is a lot like that. Pull in the sheet and halyard until the sail breaks evenly top to bottom. The luff wants to be soft just short of curling. If you sheet too hard with the tack to windward, the luff rubs on the backstay.

All you need to fly one is a halyard rigged as forn a spinnaker with the block free to swing and two appropriate fixed anchors for the tack. I have the sheet run to a block well aft and then back to the leeward (not in use) running backstay winch. You can run it by hand even with our size in wind up to about 12 knots apparent. If you had no winch but a convenient cam cleat like a small boat main sheet it would work for most boats with a shorter mizzen. Remember that this is a sail added in to increas area in light to moderate wind. Once things start to heat up you will probably have too much helm as I noted previously.
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Old 31-12-2012, 05:22   #327
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So glad to see the ketch thread alive and well again. Mine is currently in my driveway in a winter storm. Waiting for spring and spring rains to refill the lake. We are so low on moisture, it would take 100 inches of snow to take us out of our drought.
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Old 31-12-2012, 07:39   #328
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?









Georgetown, Bahamas 2011 Regatta
Full load of fuel, 140 gal
Full load of water, 200 gal
Bike on deck
No deck meat

First in class!
Woo Hoo....
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:51   #329
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Exactly correct on the tack. If you read my post I noted that the tack is moved port or starboard according to wind point. There are two permanent tack lines run to deck cleats at the port and starboard rails. the halyard is tightened according to the wind point. If you ever flew a Blooper it is a lot like that. Pull in the sheet and halyard until the sail breaks evenly top to bottom. The luff wants to be soft just short of curling. If you sheet too hard with the tack to windward, the luff rubs on the backstay.

All you need to fly one is a halyard rigged as forn a spinnaker with the block free to swing and two appropriate fixed anchors for the tack. I have the sheet run to a block well aft and then back to the leeward (not in use) running backstay winch. You can run it by hand even with our size in wind up to about 12 knots apparent. If you had no winch but a convenient cam cleat like a small boat main sheet it would work for most boats with a shorter mizzen. Remember that this is a sail added in to increas area in light to moderate wind. Once things start to heat up you will probably have too much helm as I noted previously.
Thanks for the photos - very nice...
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:42   #330
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Re: The Death of the Ketch ?

A Ketch is a nice looking vessel but surely the cost for new sails ads to them not being as popular as they once were, for instance, what would be the cost for a set of new sails for a 45' cruising Ketch and what would it cost to replace the rigging, when due, in either SS or Gal'...Not cheep I'm guessing
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