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Old 28-07-2015, 11:09   #856
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Yes, it's very sad because it saw that the production boat also completed its circumnavigation and beat it into every port.


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There is a lot of merit-ability in that. There is nothing like honing a solution to a problem by way of producing lots of something. Jeanneau is a case in point and to be honest they keep popping up in my top 5 of most things.

However, there are many that are very profit motivated and seem to focus on squeezing out that last bit of profit potential by way of revision rather than eking out seaworthy potential.

It is very hard to tell faux from the real deal or in fact not be seduced by faux.

I would say though that by trying to find the holy grail of a blue water boat definition even if it does not exists you learn a hell of a lot about design, construction, application, etc.. along the way.

and its fun...
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Old 28-07-2015, 11:42   #857
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Hello.

What follows is not written from personal experience with these boats, but is added to continue the discussion. I am NOT an expert on these boats, so take my comments with a splash of saltwater.
That's a coincidence. I was reviewing all these videos today having drilled through from this..




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Old 28-07-2015, 12:00   #858
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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That's a coincidence. I was reviewing all these videos today having drilled through from this..




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Advocate of the cat ketch also.
Yes, Eric Sponberg is well known and most experienced in free standing masts construction and boats using them (Freedom, etc.). He was the Chief of Engineering for the yard making the Freedom boats.

His own designs are interesting too, including the one you posted above.

And his site has a lot of information that many sailors might find interesting. I have not seen it in about a year, but I remember it well for being a good resource.

Here is his page with links to further information about freestanding masts.
Free Standing Masts
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Old 28-07-2015, 12:39   #859
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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I am qualified in a few things but I never stop asking questions
Will GL Rules (Part 3, upto 24 meters long) be OK?
PM Your e-mail address and I will send it to You as a starter reading.
Regret can not upload it here because of document size limitation.
1.6 MB of Your disc space will be required.
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Old 28-07-2015, 13:09   #860
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Steady is correct that round wires create a lot of drag. So much so that biplanes don't use round wire, they use a foil shaped wire.
So in that case we need foil shaped rotating cat rigged mast? Maybe..
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Old 28-07-2015, 21:15   #861
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Will GL Rules (Part 3, upto 24 meters long) be OK?...
Germanischer Lloyd??? Studying such rules - DNV, Lloyds, ABS - are no help in finding a blue boat; knowing whether or not a particular boat is designed, built or surveyed to such rules is slightly more relevant.
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Old 28-07-2015, 21:39   #862
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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...As for "storm sails?"
I think the answer is first to DEEP reef (to minimum sail area) the sail.
If that is still too much, drop the main and use a trysail or storm sail (if the mast supports a second sail track)...
Thanks, I think I can see how much simpler it would be to set one or two trysails (on two masts) and heave-to in a gale, rather than conventional storm jib and trysail, and running under bare poles should be a breeze with the masts set so far forward. (Beware of towing warps or drogues - there's plenty who disagree on that and it's probably less relevant with the masts set forward, as steering downhill through those waves should be a little easier.)

Just to clarify, I don't think any of the Nonsuch range are intended for water sailing">blue water sailing, but they do illustrate the point beautifully.
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Old 28-07-2015, 22:30   #863
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Steady is correct that round wires create a lot of drag. So much so that biplanes don't use round wire, they use a foil shaped wire.
That's not so simple. Round wires by their nature create boundary layer which helps to keep the flow attached while a foiled one might have more induced drag becouse of the flow separation. Quite complicated so it's not something a cruiser needs to think about IMO.
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Old 28-07-2015, 22:35   #864
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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So in that case we need foil shaped rotating cat rigged mast? Maybe..
Well on a normal rig the mast is foil shaped of sorts but a Cat rig would need to be rotating if it was foil shaped. Smaller cats do have rotating masts as do some of the larger racing Cats but it is not the cheap seats so it makes financial sense to use a round mast and just accept that other than downwind you will be compromised.
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Old 29-07-2015, 00:41   #865
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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I'm battling to think of ever having met another 'licensed master mariner' that has had any real interest in crossing oceans in yachts...
+100
Those owners I know and talk about in this topic are all retired masters...
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Old 29-07-2015, 01:13   #866
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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+100
Those owners I know and talk about in this topic are all retired masters...
Lol, I'm also hold a master unlimited and I can't think of another interested in sailing outside this forum...

For those interested in Cat Boats don't forget Wiliecats including.Randy Repass' yacht Convergence!
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Old 29-07-2015, 06:21   #867
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Will GL Rules (Part 3, upto 24 meters long) be OK?
PM Your e-mail address and I will send it to You as a starter reading.
Regret can not upload it here because of document size limitation.
1.6 MB of Your disc space will be required.
Sorry Steamer. I did not see your post come in before just now hence late reply.

I have the GL Rules already and have probably read them twice. Not all at once mind you. I know, I am a bit sad but what to do? - TV is crap these days.
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Old 29-07-2015, 07:46   #868
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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I have the GL Rules already and have probably read them twice...
Up to now I had my doubts - now I know you're crazy.
Stop reading - buy a yacht, any yacht - go cruising before you go blind.
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Old 29-07-2015, 09:01   #869
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Up to now I had my doubts - now I know you're crazy.
Stop reading - buy a yacht, any yacht - go cruising before you go blind.
Not just any yacht Nevisdog else what's the point of this thread? I have my eye on one or two but am desk bound for the moment. Will show you what I am working on soon.
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Old 29-07-2015, 15:35   #870
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

Strange thread. Can't you just mix some red and green and you got your "blue" then and go?��
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