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Old 27-07-2015, 17:33   #841
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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You end up with big chunky tree trunks and you need two coz u can't have a forward sail. Can't use carbon either coz they have to bend and would get fatigued but... \
My carbon masts have been bending for nearly 40 years and show no sign of fatigue
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Old 27-07-2015, 17:41   #842
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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My carbon masts have been bending for nearly 40 years and show no sign of fatigue
I haven't met anyone sailing a Taunton - what else can you tell us about these yachts: hull construction (cored?), AVS (unstayed masts may be heavy up top), anything else you can tell us.
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Old 27-07-2015, 17:48   #843
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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My carbon masts have been bending for nearly 40 years and show no sign of fatigue
Yeh.. 70's carbon fibre was the best!
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Old 27-07-2015, 18:07   #844
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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It's a Freedom 40 - I much prefer the wishbone rig on one of these 'ugly ducklings' - this picture makes it look unbalanced.

Though I love the look of the 44, my interest at the moment is in the Freedom 32 - seems to have an unusually spacious interior for a 32 ft yacht, all at a basement price (second hand). My biggest concern is the balsa core hull - anyone familiar with them?
One of these you mean?

I like it.
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Old 27-07-2015, 18:09   #845
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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I haven't met anyone sailing a Taunton - what else can you tell us about these yachts: hull construction (cored?), AVS (unstayed masts may be heavy up top), anything else you can tell us.
Deck is cored but the hull is solid. I purchased her because there are very few safe anchorage spots nearby and we need to navigate either Point Conception or the Golden Gate to get anywhere... so I wanted a floating brick shithouse I could single-hand in rough conditions. I also wanted something that was fun, enjoyable and relatively fast.

I don't have the time to go into details but I've sailed her in force 8 and she is certainly a "blue water" boat in every sense with the added benefits of looking just as good as she sails: wonderfully.
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Old 27-07-2015, 18:10   #846
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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One of these you mean?

I like it.
That looks very similar but the Tantons I know have rounded sterns.
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Old 27-07-2015, 18:34   #847
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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That looks very similar but the Tantons I know have rounded sterns.
Yeh, I know your boat the Tanton. Nice boat and has won a few races. They are supposed to be great for up wind work from what I have read but the picture I posted is of a freedom 32 or 33. Was just confirming if this was the one Nevis dog was referring to.

I like the free mast on boats up to 50 foot because the mast positions are forward which leaves the cockpit free which is something that would put me off a regular rigged ketch having a mizzen pole congesting the cockpit.

Beyond 50 foot the proportions let the mast be behind the cockpit which then justifies a stayed ketch. ketch rigged free standing masts for less than 50 foot make a lot of sense. I think..
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Old 27-07-2015, 20:34   #848
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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... the picture I posted is of a freedom 32 or 33. Was just confirming if this was the one Nevis dog was referring to.
Yes. Besides the simple rig, the inside layout is the attraction - 32 ft and room to swing a cat! (Those comments about 'big enough to live with crew for more than 2 days' are important.) Hard to find anything on stability though.

So, about the catboat rig, - how easy to reef down to storm sails?
Uncored hulls of the Tanton would be my preference but I'm not sure they've built smaller yachts to match my budget.
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Old 27-07-2015, 21:17   #849
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Yes. Besides the simple rig, the inside layout is the attraction - 32 ft and room to swing a cat! (Those comments about 'big enough to live with crew for more than 2 days' are important.) Hard to find anything on stability though.

So, about the catboat rig, - how easy to reef down to storm sails?
Uncored hulls of the Tanton would be my preference but I'm not sure they've built smaller yachts to match my budget.
Mine was (unfortunately) converted to traditional booms so I can't answer the reefing question but you have a lot more options for heavy weather and they are all laid out in the build drawings! Personally I had a Trysail made and fly it from the fwd mast... works great.

As for your budget, you are a week late. I haven't seen one for sale below $100k since I purchased mine nearly 5 years ago but one went up on craigslist in Tacoma last week for less than 10k! The interior was gutted but had a lot of extras including a brand new yanmar (I almost bought the boat myself).
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Old 28-07-2015, 10:01   #850
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

Is a Blue Boat sad from all the BS hype around it?
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Old 28-07-2015, 10:20   #851
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Is a Blue Boat sad from all the BS hype around it?
I don't really know... Still haven't found one and don't know what to do. May have to go production If I can't find what I drew.
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Old 28-07-2015, 10:36   #852
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Is a Blue Boat sad from all the BS hype around it?
Yes, it's very sad because it saw that the production boat also completed its circumnavigation and beat it into every port.


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Old 28-07-2015, 10:46   #853
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

You would think people who already own a yacht (darn, I can't wait!) would have better things to do than read through 57 pages aimed at helping newbies select a decent blue-water boat, then make worthless comments.
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Old 28-07-2015, 11:00   #854
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by NevisDog View Post
Yes. Besides the simple rig, the inside layout is the attraction - 32 ft and room to swing a cat! (Those comments about 'big enough to live with crew for more than 2 days' are important.) Hard to find anything on stability though.

So, about the catboat rig, - how easy to reef down to storm sails?
Uncored hulls of the Tanton would be my preference but I'm not sure they've built smaller yachts to match my budget.
Hello.

What follows is not written from personal experience with these boats, but is added to continue the discussion. I am NOT an expert on these boats, so take my comments with a splash of saltwater.

Point 1
How to reef a catboat rig? Or Wishbone Rig?
As I recall, this is discussed and illustrated very completely on the NONSUCH (brand) videos.

I suggest you (or others interested) take a look at the videos I will embed below.

I found it interesting last year (fuzzy recall now) and it clearly shows how easy (relatively speaking) the rig can be for shorthanded or singlehanded sailing.

Here are a few promotional videos (old) from the maker. They explain the wishbone boom rig etc.







Close Hauled 25knts



Nonsuch 26 in 30-35kt wind




Nonsuch 33 Singlehanded 7.3 knots in about 16knots of wind


Nonsuch Sail Trim by Expert (sailmaker)

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Point 2
As for "storm sails?"

I think the answer is first to DEEP reef (to minimum sail area) the sail.

If that is still too much, drop the main and use a trysail or storm sail (if the mast supports a second sail track).

Or, if one is really in the high winds (survival conditions), I suspect the "bare poles" would be enough to provide steerage speed. But, at that point I would be trailing a Jordan Series Drogue and running very slowly downwind anyway (assuming sea room).
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Point 3
Also, I suspect (do not know for a fact) that the total effective windage of the two unstayed masts, even though they are greater in diameter than a typical aluminum mast, would be LESS than the total effective windage of a pair of stayed masts with their wire standing rigging included and spreaders.

Up above someone mentioned a biplane that has wires, struts, etc. Those wires and supporting struts (like spreaders on a boat's mast) do present or cause much more air drag and turbulence than one might expect, despite their small diameter). Aerodynamics (wind tunnel type stuff) and practical experience with airplane design development has proven that over 100 years of development.

_____________
Point 4

Tree Trunk Unstayed Masts? (for PaulAnthony)

Also, in response to the comment about "tree trunk" masts, those do not bother me at all, and I really like aesthetics of boats (I am an artist, so how they look matters to me). To my eyes, they look "clean and simple" and that looks good to me. As I see it, they also look very practical, modern, and even "better" because as I see it: Less wire + Less fittings = less to fail under stress or with time.
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Old 28-07-2015, 11:05   #855
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

Steady is correct that round wires create a lot of drag. So much so that biplanes don't use round wire, they use a foil shaped wire.
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