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Old 25-07-2015, 15:42   #811
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
If one of that kind qualified sailors (Master Mariners) wants a true blue-water yacht, then he goes to build her with reputable builder and according to the Rules... By rules I mean ... Classification Societies' clearly set up Rules ...
I agree wholeheartedly. Problem is, some of us have a budget that doesn't allow for new build of a size that's comfortable for long-term cruising, yet we are stupid enough to want to go blue. Short of building our own (a ten year project most likely), we have to scratch around searching for some cast-off by some Master Mariner, or make do with a lesser vessel.

It is those lesser vessels of sufficient quality of build and design that we are trying hard to categorize. Identifying totally blue and totally non-blue is easy - everything between may be down to opinion and personal choice, but we have stumbled across some helpful guidelines along the way, like those few disasters that we can all learn something from.
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Old 25-07-2015, 16:09   #812
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Hi!

I personally have never met any qualified Master Mariner who will accept sailing across the oceans aboard any production boat despite it carries CE-A badge glued on and regardless of the yard's size, or its money measured sales sucess, taking world's leading Bene as example.

If one of that kind qualified sailors wants a true blue water yacht, then he goes to build her with reputable builder and according to the Rules (not just 1+2+3)

By rules I mean what was already meantioned by the colleagues above. It is Classification Societies' clearly set up Rules of Ships and Yachts Building.

Do You know why qualified sailors do not ask anybody to clarify them on what "bluie water" yacht is?

Sorry,
I sail oceans on a production boat..... pleased to meet you.....
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Old 25-07-2015, 16:58   #813
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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I sail oceans on a production boat..... pleased to meet you.....
Ho, ho, ho... that was a dirty trick, El Ping... calling his bluff and all!

But I think what he means by "qualified Master Mariner" is one who agrees with his myopic view of sailing, not just someone with an unlimited ocean master's ticket.

Cheers,

Jim (whose non-production ocean crossing boat was NOT built to a classification societies rules)
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Old 25-07-2015, 18:51   #814
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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... I think what he means by "qualified Master Mariner" is one who agrees with his myopic view of sailing, not just someone with an unlimited ocean master's ticket.
A bit harsh, Jim, maybe? You can't really say it's myopic to want a yacht built to Lloyds or similar - it would be nice after all, especially with quality of build from some yards. I'm guessing maybe you built your own? That obviates the need for external supervision. Am I right in thinking El Pinguino has a Westerly? They too seem to have a very good reputation, so not necessary to have a surveyor check each step of the hull production, but that's not true of every builder. I worked in a Scottish yard (now deceased, thank goodness) that used to switch off the heating system soon as the surveyor left the shop - not a good idea in Scottish winters. I've seen other practices that would make your hair curl, sometimes picked up by a good surveyor.
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Old 25-07-2015, 19:20   #815
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
Hi!

I personally have never met any qualified Master Mariner who will accept sailing across the oceans aboard any production boat despite it carries CE-A badge glued on and regardless of the yard's size, or its money measured sales sucess, taking world's leading Bene as example.
And how many have you met? Is that number statistically significant to the vessels voyaging blue water?

Conjecture doesn't count!

Sorry!
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Old 25-07-2015, 23:50   #816
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by NevisDog View Post
A bit harsh, Jim, maybe? You can't really say it's myopic to want a yacht built to Lloyds or similar - it would be nice after all, especially with quality of build from some yards. I'm guessing maybe you built your own? That obviates the need for external supervision. Am I right in thinking El Pinguino has a Westerly? They too seem to have a very good reputation, so not necessary to have a surveyor check each step of the hull production, but that's not true of every builder. I worked in a Scottish yard (now deceased, thank goodness) that used to switch off the heating system soon as the surveyor left the shop - not a good idea in Scottish winters. I've seen other practices that would make your hair curl, sometimes picked up by a good surveyor.
The "myopic" view is when one says that no qualified master would sail across an ocean in ANY production boat. El Ping is just the first such licensed master mariner who disagrees in principle and in practice and who has responded to the claim.

And no, I didn't build Insatiable II. I wish I had the skills demonstrated by the master shipwright who did build her... even though he did not undergo inspection by Lloyds or anyone but his wife, who was the co-builder .

Jim
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Old 26-07-2015, 00:57   #817
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Nevisdog.. Here is a fail as they are called these days. Quite interesting to watch.

Not sure why the guy is presenting himself in the video semi naked. He could have at least dressed up for the occasion which makes me a little suspicious it is a he aman video. Never the less, excuse the lack of decorum and check out the dinghy doing barrel rolls off the stern.

A twist in the tail. So watch till the end.
I didn't see anything of a 'fail' in that at all. I'd say it was a 'win', despite him loosing his main boat. Would like to know how he managed to get ashore once his tender turned.
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Old 26-07-2015, 02:02   #818
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
The "myopic" view is when one says that no qualified master would sail across an ocean in ANY production boat. El Ping is just the first such licensed master mariner who disagrees in principle and in practice and who has responded to the claim.

And no, I didn't build Insatiable II. I wish I had the skills demonstrated by the master shipwright who did build her... even though he did not undergo inspection by Lloyds or anyone but his wife, who was the co-builder .

Jim
I'm battling to think of ever having met another 'licensed master mariner' that has had any real interest in crossing oceans in yachts... except Knox-Johnson and an Italian bloke down south a few years ago..

All the ones I know think that anyone who crosses big oceans in small boats is a bit of a nutter.... regardless of how blue their boat is....
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Old 26-07-2015, 02:06   #819
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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All the ones I know think that anyone who crosses big oceans in small boats is a bit of a nutter.... regardless of how blue their boat is....
_
Who knew how smart all those master mariners were?

I've always admired their knowledge of things maritime, and now El Ping shows that they have common sense too!

Jim
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Old 26-07-2015, 03:08   #820
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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and now El Ping shows that they have common sense too!
... with one notable exception! (Okay two if we count Knox-Johnson.)

Sorry,
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Old 26-07-2015, 07:19   #821
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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I didn't see anything of a 'fail' in that at all. I'd say it was a 'win', despite him loosing his main boat. Would like to know how he managed to get ashore once his tender turned.
Where do you see a win? He had his wet suit on remember. Just in case he said. Maybe he swam for it. I am more interested to know how the boat sank because it looked ok up to the final sudden film cut where we see it semi submerged.

It must have broken it's lines somehow or crazies amongst crazies did he try to move it? Looks like it met its match against a harbour wall so maybe that is where the guy exited.
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Old 26-07-2015, 07:39   #822
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Where do you see a win? He had his wet suit on remember. Just in case he said. Maybe he swam for it. I am more interested to know how the boat sank because it looked ok up to the final sudden film cut where we see it semi submerged.

It must have broken it's lines somehow or crazies amongst crazies did he try to move it? Looks like it met its match against a harbour wall so maybe that is where the guy exited.
When Ivan came through Pensacola several homes appeared to have been hit by the tornadoes that were coming thru with the Hurricane. (Ivan also have winds of around 135)

Those homes were nothing more than piles of wood afterward or were totally not there anymore. A tornado could have come near him or the winds just did it.

When I would look out during Ivan, the trees were not bending over in one direction. They were going back and forth rapidly.

Also, when I would walk across the living room at the lady's home I was stay at, sometimes the pressure would change rapidly. You could feel it in you ears. It was so intense I would hit the deck. Her home was on the downside of a hill.

We were beat up for 10 hours with a Cat 3/4 Hurricane (winds around 135-140) and 75% of the roof tops had to be covered with blue tarp.

Most all the sailboats anchored in Bayou Grande were taken out by the floating docks from the Pensacola Naval Base after the docks floated above their pilings. The dock came thru and took all the anchored boats except one or two and pushed them up on land.

The surge was 14' - 18'. An I-10 bridge span was removed by the surge and a tractor trailer went in the water.

Not a good idea to stay on a sailboat at anchor during one of these things.

Also, in 2005 Katrina passed 180 south of Pensacola. The water though was at the height of an average hurricane in the Pensacola Area. Katrina was a Cat 5 at that time.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hurr...ande+sailboats
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Old 26-07-2015, 07:46   #823
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Do You know why qualified sailors do not ask anybody to clarify them on what "bluie water" yacht is?

Sorry,
I am qualified in a few things but I never stop asking questions about those things and very often I ask the exact same questions about those things because the passing of time changes the perspective and merit of things.

A qualified person never stops clarifying their subject matter in my humble opinion and to do so would be to inhibit knowledge acquisition and progress in every walk of life and that includes blue ocean sailing.
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Old 26-07-2015, 08:05   #824
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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LOL

Small world.....

It's my father and uncles old boat. Sold it a month or two ago.

I was hoping it would not sell so I could take it to Tassie as Christmas

Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
It looks to be in great condition. I think I would have had a selfish line of thought as well If I was you. Never mind. Maybe they will get a new one.
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Old 26-07-2015, 08:11   #825
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The criteria of "blue"

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It looks to be in great condition. I think I would have had a selfish line of thought as well If I was you. Never mind. Maybe they will get a new one.
No, that will be their last I suspect. Only limited to things to do with a yacht in Melbourne unless you go to Tassie or if you race. Besides why buy a yacht when they have a son/nephew with a yacht in Greece which may also make its way home via a few exotic locations 😉

Beldisha was named after the daughters of the previous owner and it inspired me to name my yacht after my nieces. I only sailed on her once over a long weekend around the bay. At the time I had not rekindled my interest in sailing. I never took the helm on the weekend, partly because I was happy to reacquaint myself with sail trim and other crewing duties, and partly because I had never been on a yacht with autohelm 😃

10 months later I bought my yacht 😃
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