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Old 02-05-2015, 19:37   #361
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Old 03-05-2015, 02:49   #362
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by markwesti View Post
I'll see your 'Stavanger' and raise you a 'Sandefjord'... pitchpoled in the North Atlantic with the loss of one crewmember.

When I think pitchpoling I think Sandefjord and Tzu Hang... both heavy displacement double enders... I would have assumed that fat arsed modern boats would have been prone but can't recall many if any.

Had a minor 'pitchpole' moment offshore from Rio Gallegos once... became aware that the front of the boat wasn't so much 'in front' of me as 'below' me... but that was wind ( from the back) over tide... coastal stuff... not 'blue water' or anything fancy like that.
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Old 03-05-2015, 03:09   #363
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

Traditional gaff rig for singlehander or man/wife crew - not likely! Minimum 2 gorillas.
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Old 03-05-2015, 03:45   #364
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

I found this which visually explains some of the math behind keeping a boat upright (and above water).

Centre of Buoyancy

There is a visual for AVS as well as centers of boyancy and gravity.
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Old 03-05-2015, 08:54   #365
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
I found this which visually explains some of the math behind keeping a boat upright (and above water).

Centre of Buoyancy

There is a visual for AVS as well as centers of boyancy and gravity.
Interesting stuff.. Not as interesting as Chelsea fc just winning the league but nearly.
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Old 03-05-2015, 09:02   #366
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

The feeling 44 hits the blue notes for me.

http://www.feeling-lines.com/model/m...l?m=feeling-44

Good cockpit.

2015 interior looks safe and practical.

Well built.

and a proper lifting keel giving a 2 foot limit....
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Old 03-05-2015, 10:48   #367
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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The feeling 44 hits the blue notes for me.

Feeling lines - Original Line Feeling 44

Good cockpit.

2015 interior looks safe and practical.

Well built.

and a proper lifting keel giving a 2 foot limit....
Nice looking boat , huge cockpit and down below . Not sure if that's blue worthy , but I'm a dinosaur from the past . A D/L of 166 and some change ? Really that's blue ?
FEELING 44 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
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Old 03-05-2015, 12:31   #368
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Nice looking boat , huge cockpit and down below . Not sure if that's blue worthy , but I'm a dinosaur from the past . A D/L of 166 and some change ? Really that's blue ?
FEELING 44 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
Not sure really. Think the answer to your question would require the boat be considered holistically to arrive at any meaningful answers but quite a few have been sold and have crossed oceans.

Maybe it is a Manchester city blue and not a Chelsea blue but think it would cope with most "normal" conditions.

A lot of bang for your buck in that boat. There are not many decent sized and beach-able boats in that price bracket. Most alternatives are aluminium. I would have one.
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Old 03-05-2015, 13:12   #369
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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So to say, we can have light and strong or we can have heavy and strong. The huge difference between the two being that the light one will be easily driven while the heavy one will be slow and effort-hungry.
Is it also that:
"light and strong" will wear down faster than "heavy and strong"?
If I want that the (hull, deck, ...) material is still strong after 30 years of use, and not only during the mandatory warranty period, I must put more of the said material, correct?
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Old 03-05-2015, 13:39   #370
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Are you really saying that an experienced naval architect (Olin Stevens, Bill Shaw, Bob Perry) is not qualified to have an opinion on the suitability of a design for offshore use? (!)
I think Stevens was an accomplished sailor with considerable ocean experience.

How about the other two?

b.
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Old 03-05-2015, 14:24   #371
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

I had a look at Feeling 44 and failed to find the blue points.

Can someone pls elaborate.

BTW very poorly designed website trying to pop-up with flash based elements that limit my viewing experience.

Can a company that cannot set-up a clean, informative and working website design boats well?

Hmmmmmm

;-)

b.
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Old 03-05-2015, 14:40   #372
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Is it also that:
"light and strong" will wear down faster than "heavy and strong"?
If I want that the (hull, deck, ...) material is still strong after 30 years of use, and not only during the mandatory warranty period, I must put more of the said material, correct?
Needs neither less or more.. Needs the correct amount for the task in hand. If you make something heavy you will incur more load and more damage. The inertia will be greater and therefore you have to have more energy acting on that object to make it go faster or slower or turn corners. A surface area of 1 square meter is going to suffer more if it has 20 ton behind it when its smashes into a wave than if that same area had 10 ton. Less weight where it's "not needed" is the key to longevity unless something has been designed purposely to tolerate stress for a limited time like an f1 engine. However even that critically designed f1 engine would last significantly longer if for example the fuel tanks were cut in half and the engine had less fuel weight/inertia to stop and start during its originally designed lifetime.

Plus don't forget you then need to work your ancillary items harder to control that extra inertia. sails, winches, ropes, engines, more fuel, anchors.
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Old 03-05-2015, 14:58   #373
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

That Seaward 46 is not only completely butt ugly (you don't own one and no one here does, so I can say that?), but, going back to the OP, has defied every single one of the "desirable characteristics," which are pretty basic for almost any comfortable boat.

Who woulda thunk that Seaward didn't work too well?

What a surprise!?!

Sheez...you don't have to be going offshore or even wanting to beach a boat to understand that layouts on sailboats work for basic ergonomic reasons.

Man (& woman) - sizes haven't changed much over the past century. A tripping hazard with steps has always been one.

I agree wholeheartedly with Jon E, those cockpit displays of electronics are really cockpit displays of stupidity. If you can see in front of your boat, what the hell are you doing out there?
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Old 03-05-2015, 15:02   #374
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I had a look at Feeling 44 and failed to find the blue points. Can someone pls elaborate.
b.
AVS of 112, STIX not given - F44 is non-blue by consensus of European naval architects. Despite having started this fascinating thread, Paul, you do seem more interested in price and superficial appearance than what makes blue.

And yes, strong and heavy will outlast strong and light - it's basically a trade-off between initial cost and life expectancy. Flexing leads to fatigue, and light and strong flexes more than heavy and strong. Besides, inertia is another major contributor to resistance to that knockdown, which is less than pleasant I can assure you. Ever been hit by an express train? ... strong and heavy helps withstand the capsizing forces, which is precisely why heavier displacement is permitted a lower AVS (in Europe at least).
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Old 03-05-2015, 15:13   #375
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
That Seaward 46 is not only completely butt ugly (you don't own one and no one here does, so I can say that?), but, going back to the OP, has defied every single one of the "desirable characteristics," which are pretty basic for almost any comfortable boat.

Who woulda thunk that Seaward didn't work too well?

What a surprise!?!

Sheez...you don't have to be going offshore or even wanting to beach a boat to understand that layouts on sailboats work for basic ergonomic reasons.

Man (& woman) - sizes haven't changed much over the past century. A tripping hazard with steps has always been one.

I agree wholeheartedly with Jon E, those cockpit displays of electronics are really cockpit displays of stupidity. If you can see in front of your boat, what the hell are you doing out there?

I don't know if you're directing the comment to me, but I totally agree that the Seaward 46 is butt ugly. I was going to say that, but forgot. $680,000 is a lot to pay for an ugly date.

BUT, I read the thread from ReefMagnet this morning, and said to myself that an ugly boat in one piece, is better than me smashing my keel against some coral at speed in the Bahamas.

Well, I have to say that you guys are making me think of some other options. We're getting some visas this week for the U.S., and I'll be stopping in at Hake to see things up-close, and personal. Pictures won't do it for me.
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