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Old 29-04-2015, 14:56   #211
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
So... no boat, no experience. Ditto Mr. Anthony Ditto Mr. Eisberg Yet all of you... experts on the internet. LOL
"No boat, no experience...", huh? OK, if you say so...:-)

I actually do happen to possess at least a bit of sailing experience, although most of it has come aboard an assortment of Other People's Boats, sad to say :-)

And, believe it or not, I actually own a boat of my own, as well... However, it's quite modest, I'm afraid... At least by American standards, I'd be hard pressed to even find a good hiding place for a gun aboard...

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Dave who has extensive offshore experience on various boats offers up some free expert advice.... all three of you argue with him.
I must be getting senile, I've already forgotten where I was arguing with Dave... Perhaps you can refresh my memory?
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Old 29-04-2015, 15:08   #212
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
"No boat, no experience...", huh? OK, if you say so...:-)

I actually do happen to possess at least a bit of sailing experience, although most of it has come aboard an assortment of Other People's Boats, sad to say :-)

And, believe it or not, I actually own a boat of my own, as well... However, it's quite modest, I'm afraid... At least by American standards, I'd be hard pressed to even find a good hiding place for a gun aboard...



I must be getting senile, I've already forgotten where I was arguing with Dave... Perhaps you can refresh my memory?
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Old 29-04-2015, 15:37   #213
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

I enjoy reading good discussions or arguments about a topic, if the arguments remain on topic and civil. Seeing the different Points Of View can be helpful in understanding any situation or issue.

If one knows something based on experience I am always glad to hear their story. Experience can be a memorable, but very costly teacher. I would much rather learn how to avoid pitfalls, rather than experiencing them myself, unnecessarily.

Likewise if someone who does not have actual experience or less experience brings up sincere questions, I am glad to hear them too. A fresh look at issues can be helpful to anyone who has an open mind and values improvement.

As I see it, no one person will have all the answers, and sometimes new questions asked can lead even knowledgable individuals to new answers.

Even answering a question for a newbie can help one's reasoning. It often helps me to organize and clarify or amplify my thoughts on a subject.

I appreciate everyone who has contributed something positive to the discussion so far. While I may not agree with all, I am glad to see the various views as they help me better understand the issue. As I see it, this IS the value of a dialectic discussion.
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Old 29-04-2015, 15:46   #214
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
"No boat, no experience...", huh? OK, if you say so...:-)

I actually do happen to possess at least a bit of sailing experience, although most of it has come aboard an assortment of Other People's Boats, sad to say :-)

And, believe it or not, I actually own a boat of my own, as well... However, it's quite modest, I'm afraid... At least by American standards, I'd be hard pressed to even find a good hiding place for a gun aboard...
Stated with your customary modesty and with your trademark :-). I'm sure if the otherwise sensible Keno knew a bit more about your background he would not have lumped you in. Don't recall your arguing with Dave either, but my eyes often glaze over trying to stay abreast of these types of threads. I suspect Keno too. Besides, who would wanna pick a fight with Dave??

Back to the incredible story you posted about the Mason 43. Never would have imagined a boat like that could get knocked down at anchor! I guess that's what 115 kt. winds can do, a phenomenom I hope to never experience. Your theory about the Lexan failure sounds plausible. No longer will I complain about my 3 heavy wood companionway boards that slot down into solid glass, tapered grooves. Might also take a look, however, at a way of securing the hatch from the inside.

Btw, and if you know, is there any function to the offset companionway on the Mason, or is it merely stylistic?
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Old 29-04-2015, 15:55   #215
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
I enjoy reading good discussions or arguments about a topic, if the arguments remain on topic and civil. Seeing the different Points Of View can be helpful in understanding any situation or issue.

If one knows something based on experience I am always glad to hear their story. Experience can be a memorable, but very costly teacher. I would much rather learn how to avoid pitfalls, rather than experiencing them myself, unnecessarily.

Likewise if someone who does not have actual experience or less experience brings up sincere questions, I am glad to hear them too. A fresh look at issues can be helpful to anyone who has an open mind and values improvement.

As I see it, no one person will have all the answers, and sometimes new questions asked can lead even knowledgable individuals to new answers.

Even answering a question for a newbie can help one's reasoning. It often helps me to organize and clarify or amplify my thoughts on a subject.

I appreciate everyone who has contributed something positive to the discussion so far. While I may not agree with all, I am glad to see the various views as they help me better understand the issue. As I see it, this IS the value of a dialectic discussion.
Well said Steady Hand. That really is the essence of forum.
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Old 29-04-2015, 16:49   #216
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Stated with your customary modesty and with your trademark :-). I'm sure if the otherwise sensible Keno knew a bit more about your background he would not have lumped you in. Don't recall your arguing with Dave either, but my eyes often glaze over trying to stay abreast of these types of threads. I suspect Keno too. Besides, who would wanna pick a fight with Dave??

Back to the incredible story you posted about the Mason 43. Never would have imagined a boat like that could get knocked down at anchor! I guess that's what 115 kt. winds can do, a phenomenom I hope to never experience. Your theory about the Lexan failure sounds plausible. No longer will I complain about my 3 heavy wood companionway boards that slot down into solid glass, tapered grooves. Might also take a look, however, at a way of securing the hatch from the inside.

Btw, and if you know, is there any function to the offset companionway on the Mason, or is it merely stylistic?
I tried to find part "two" of that article but could not find it. If some has it would appreciate the link.
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Old 29-04-2015, 16:50   #217
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by Tayana42 View Post
Frankly, your lack of knowledge and your refusal to credit the opinions of experienced sailors is ... S/V B'Shert
Lack of knowledge is the reason he is here - why else?

FYI, spade rudders have many disadvantages - low angle of stall, ineffective in turbulence, difficult to reattach laminar flow (and hence regain control), etc, etc, which is why boats with spade rudders tend to broach so often. They also pose many advantages - less drag = more speed, quicker response, etc, etc, so there are pros and cons. Experienced people should know this and not get on their high horse when contradicted. This is a discussion - not a dictatorship. We should not need to remind long-time contributors to refrain from rudeness.
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Old 29-04-2015, 16:57   #218
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by NevisDog View Post
Lack of knowledge is the reason he is here - why else?



FYI, spade rudders have many disadvantages - low angle of stall, ineffective in turbulence, difficult to reattach laminar flow (and hence regain control), etc, etc, which is why boats with spade rudders tend to broach so often. They also pose many advantages - less drag = more speed, quicker response, etc, etc, so there are pros and cons. Experienced people should know this and not get on their high horse when contradicted. This is a discussion - not a dictatorship. We should not need to remind long-time contributors to refrain from rudeness.

Yes you are correct. Paul, I apologize for my rudeness.



S/V B'Shert
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Old 29-04-2015, 17:24   #219
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Yes you are correct. Paul, I apologize for my rudeness.



S/V B'Shert
That's very generous and upstanding of you Tayana42. I appreciate it. Thanks.
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Old 29-04-2015, 17:36   #220
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by NevisDog View Post
Lack of knowledge is the reason he is here - why else?

FYI, spade rudders have many disadvantages - low angle of stall, ineffective in turbulence, difficult to reattach laminar flow (and hence regain control), etc, etc, which is why boats with spade rudders tend to broach so often. They also pose many advantages - less drag = more speed, quicker response, etc, etc, so there are pros and cons. Experienced people should know this and not get on their high horse when contradicted. This is a discussion - not a dictatorship. We should not need to remind long-time contributors to refrain from rudeness.
Thanks for the support NevisDog. I do have some knowledge though. I used to sail a lot 10 years ago plus used to dinghy sail with my old man and my Grandfather who was a merchant captain taught me a lot about navigation as a kid before we relied on satellites.

He was running cargo trips during WWII and after the war his ship went down in 75 I think, during a storm in January and they all died apart from two of hypothermia and drowning.

My Grandfather could not even swim yet gave his life vest away. That's the biggest lesson he ever taught me although I did not see it first hand as shown in the link.

Screenshot by Lightshot



Anyway - I intend to start sailing again properly very soon and wanted to associate myself with all that's new but I do have some basics.
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Old 29-04-2015, 17:46   #221
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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Originally Posted by paulanthony View Post
Thanks for the support NevisDog. I do have some knowledge though. I used to sail a lot 10 years ago plus used to dinghy sail with my old man and my Grandfather who was a merchant captain taught me a lot about navigation as a kid before we relied on satellites.

He was running cargo trips during WWII and after the war his ship went down in 75 I think, during a storm in January and they all died apart from two of hypothermia and drowning.

My Grandfather could not even swim yet gave his life vest away. That's the biggest lesson he ever taught me although I did not see it first hand as shown in the link.

Screenshot by Lightshot



Anyway - I intend to start sailing again properly very soon and wanted to associate myself with all that's new but I do have some basics.
After reading that very sad story it is easy to understand why you are concerned with finding the perfect blue water yacht. Your grandfather was a brave man.
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Old 29-04-2015, 17:47   #222
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

NevisDog: "Experienced people should know this and not get on their high horse when contradicted. This is a discussion - not a dictatorship. We should not need to remind long-time contributors to refrain from rudeness."

Tayana42: "Yes you are correct. Paul, I apologize for my rudeness."

PaulAnthony: "That's very generous and upstanding of you Tayana42. I appreciate it. Thanks."

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Those are good examples of "civil" discourse among strangers. Good to see anywhere and I am glad to see it here!
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Old 29-04-2015, 17:50   #223
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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And how many points of support does the skeg have?




Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
So I decided to give this a look-see and brag a bit.. our boat sports a skeg rudder.. about 6 feet tall.
And inside the boat are 2 monster bushings on a 4 inch stainless shaft.
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Old 29-04-2015, 17:53   #224
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

second shot.. the bushings are about 4 feet apart...guess thats enough support.. but it was designed for off-shore use
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Old 29-04-2015, 18:08   #225
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Re: The criteria of "blue"

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second shot.. the bushings are about 4 feet apart...guess thats enough support.. but it was designed for off-shore use
Is there a retaining pin on the outside nut on the pull rods?
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