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Old 26-03-2008, 09:30   #16
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Joli, I don't understand what you are questioning. All I'm saying about C&C is that the Landfall series were designed as express cruisers, the main C&C series were not. The landfalls were purpose-built for more capacity and more extended cruising, trading off a few other points.
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Old 26-03-2008, 10:14   #17
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Actually C&C did what many other have done and continue to do. They used or modified the mold from another series and re-tooled a new deck. The LF's were essentially worked over racer/cruiser C&C's . Nothing wrong with that, it's good business, why throw away a sweet hull form? I only question that the LF series was purpose built or designed from inception as a cruiser, it seems to me to be more of a remake of it's racier bretheren.

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Joli, I don't understand what you are questioning. All I'm saying about C&C is that the Landfall series were designed as express cruisers, the main C&C series were not. The landfalls were purpose-built for more capacity and more extended cruising, trading off a few other points.
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Old 26-03-2008, 10:24   #18
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Joli-
"I only question that the LF series was purpose built or designed from inception as a cruiser, it seems to me to be more of a remake of it's racier bretheren." You're reading things into what I said, beyond what I said. I never said the Landfalls were built from scratch, from a clean sheet of paper, as cruisers. If C&C used the same molds and stretched them, so what? That's just a normal economy. After all, the original Mustang used many Ford Falcon parts. Clean designs are a luxury most companies can't afford, just because they "made do" it doesn't mean they weren't trying--within economic constraints. No big deal.
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Old 26-03-2008, 10:45   #19
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Island Packet - yes, Tartan - no...
Yes



Also - Pacific Seacraft, Valiant
Tartan no? and Valiant yes? Give me a break!
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Old 26-03-2008, 10:48   #20
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For that type of money why go production? Get a custom made boat to your exact specifications.
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Old 26-03-2008, 13:30   #21
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Efraim,

Exactly and someone like Thom Morris builds beautiful custom yachts. I suppose the deal is how custom do you want to go? I would think that you could work with a hull and go from there with the deck plan and rig and of course the important accommodation plan. $750 buys a lot of yacht, but this needs to be matched to the size of the project.
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Old 29-03-2008, 11:16   #22
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Celestial...with the sale of Tartan ASSETS to a new owner...and no word on how the previous warranty and other obligations of "Novis" will be handled in the future, I would definitely not have anything to do with a NEW boat from them until the dust has settled and one can be sure one's investent is protected. Furthermore, as many know...there are also some product quality/warranty issues working their way through the court system from the prior ownership which do not give one a warm feeling.
Certainly tartan quality over the years cannot be questioned...but the OP here was asking about current builders and right now it would seem less than prudent to compare them to Halberg Rassey or Njaad.
May I ask what quality/support issues you have with current production Valiants?
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Old 09-05-2008, 01:20   #23
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There are two builders that stand out from the rest ( for me that is )
- Shannon
- Gozzard
Any personal thoughts / experiences about these 2 names ?
Is Shannon in a different league or are they comparable ?

Koen
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Old 09-05-2008, 03:43   #24
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Celestial...with the sale of Tartan ASSETS to a new owner...and no word on how the previous warranty and other obligations of "Novis" will be handled in the future, I would definitely not have anything to do with a NEW boat from them until the dust has settled and one can be sure one's investent is protected. Furthermore, as many know...there are also some product quality/warranty issues working their way through the court system from the prior ownership which do not give one a warm feeling...
Novis Marine (Tartan/C&C) sold to Grand River Investments, a private equity group based in Cleveland.

Warrantee?

Interview with Tim Jackett* - Quality and Warranty Issues
Tartan Yachts Home - Interview with Tim Jackett - Quality and Warranty Issues

* Tim Jackett is Novis Marine's chief operating officer and chief designer

The REAL 'Truth in Engineering' (disgruntled owner)
The REAL 'Truth in Engineering': Action: Customers Sue Novis. Re-Action: Novis Sues Customers
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Old 09-05-2008, 12:46   #25
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I'll echo the Pearson 424, Bill Shaw design sentiment. At your price point, you could buy 4 or five and keep them scattered all over the place ;>). Hinkley.
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Old 09-05-2008, 18:49   #26
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Gord...note several things:
1. The sale of Novis to Grand River was a sale of ASSETS. There is NO word from Grand River in the last 90 days on how boats under warranty from Novis will be handled if at all.
2. The interview with Jackett took place last year when Novis owned the business which does not negate his views on construction but DOES impact the warranty issues. I will leave it for the courts to decide the several individual owner cases.
3. In recent weeks Tartan's former (prior to sale) lawyers have sued for several 100k in unpaid bills and stated in their filing that they believed Tartan's/Novis's liabilities exceed their assets. They have asked the court to enforce a lien against Tartan/Novis/GrandRiver assets inclucing production equipment. This has not yet been ruled on by the court as far as I know. In addition, one week ago JPMorgan Chase received a judgement against Novis in the amount of $500k.

This is all a matter of public record and goes beyond the owner complaints which may or may not have merit. If considering a boat from them and needing to put down heavy $$ as a deposit, one might want to have some legal advice to insure one's own funds are protected....at least until the dust settles.
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Old 09-05-2008, 20:14   #27
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Koen,

I would go with Shannon. Actually - I DID go with Shannon. They're building me a boat right now. The quality, experience and attention to detail is simply astonishing.

You're looking at some great names. With any of these small, semi-custom companies it's really important that you and the builder can work well together. Do you both share a common vision of the right boat for you? Do you get along? It's a very personal experience that is more about people than glass or resin.

Carl
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:51   #28
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Carl,

That's exactly how I feel. After everything I read about these fine craftsmen I come to the same conclusion. There's something about the founder " Walter Schulz " that fascinates me. When you hear him talk about his new project ( Shannon Pilot 43 have a look at the video : 43' wheelhouse sailboat by Shannon Yachts ) it really comes from the heart. I wish I had the money right now...His boats are really an example of how Bluewater cruisers should be build. Which model did you choose ?

Koen
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Old 10-05-2008, 06:17   #29
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Having just watched the video for the Shannon 43 wheelhouse model, I can say that it looks like a great design for a cruising couple. After seeing the price, though, I consider the comparable Island Packet 440 to be a much better value at nearly half the price of the Shannon. The features that Shannon touts as giving value to the 43 are nearly all found on the IP 440. There are some features and equipment on the 440 that Shannon does not offer. Though I have no doubt that the Shannon is a great boat from a premier builder, I'd go with the IP and save the rest for cruising.

Cheers,
Dan
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Old 10-05-2008, 06:40   #30
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I don't think you can compare the IP 440 with the Pilot 43. The concept of the Shannon 43 Pilot is it's abbility to offer protection from the sun and cold while adding the comfort of an interior steering station. Altough equally capable for offshore cruising I fear you get what you pay for.

Koen
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