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Old 09-10-2011, 22:04   #16
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Re: The A-Fame 'Mast'

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Originally Posted by rpeebles View Post
Inverted V attached to sides of boat, supporting stays that hold the sails. In fact, a vertical stay to apex of V to which sail luff is attached, could be moved at deck attachment point to cant sail into wind, just like a windsurfer.

By the way, I just patented that concept...see

SAILFAST
Sorry if I'm being cynical, but are you just trying to get your webpage count up for some reason? Maybe my browser doesn't work with your page, but the only thing that I see on your page that relates to your post here is the identical post in your Q & A section.

John
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Old 27-11-2016, 21:28   #17
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Re: A-frame Rig on 63' Cat

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Originally Posted by beiland View Post
More out-of-the-box thinking:

Somehow I missed ever seeing or knowing of this vessel, but here is a gentleman who is not affraid to experiement. Just happened across this vessel this afternoon. Perhaps we'll encourage the owner to add some comments to this forum.

XXXX

The rig was completed in December, 2006. It works very well, is quite efficient upwind, is especially good reaching and running, and is easy to handle because all sails furl and there are other advantages as well........."[/I]


After I posted this reference to this vessel I made a hard copy of his 'Explaination of the A-frame Rig', and reread it several times. It is quite interesting. He makes a good argument for his configuration:
1) that allows for variable tack (sail) locations across the beam of the vessel
2) that might well be called a cutter arrangement
3) all roller-furling sails with no mast interference with leading edge of sails
I thought it deserved being printed out here,...or you could go to his website and see it along with the photos.
The links on the posting quoted above are no longer any good, but this is a very special boat that should not be lost to such bad links.
So here is a better one, and I am sure a few more can be found with renewed searches.
63' Malcolm Tennant Cruising Catamaran
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Old 27-11-2016, 21:36   #18
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Double A-frame Rig

Double A-frame Rig
Recently a gentleman, David Slater, viewed a posting I had made on the unusual rig onboard "Diomedea Exulans". He wrote to tell me of a rig his father, Alan Slater, had designed and built back in the early 1970's,.... (for those that don't recall, Alan Slater was the gentleman who brought us the PDQ line of catamarans).

What first caught David's attention was the manner in which the two mast on Diomedea Exulans meet at a single point at deck level approx in the middle the boat, then projected upwards, one forward and one rearward from that central point. David wrote to tell me of his father's experiment with a similar concept, but involving A-frame masts rather than single mast tubes.

So here is the document (a copy of a Multihull article) that David just sent to me (attached PDF), and a couple of photos.

PS The attached PDF is too large to upload to this forum so you need to visit this link:
WishBone Sailing Rig - Page 21 - Boat Design Forums
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Old 27-11-2016, 21:43   #19
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Double A-frame Rig

BTW, here is the letter David sent along with that material

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidSlater
Brian ,
Here are the things I have at home to scan . The first is an article that was published in Multihulls magazine . The second was for Publication in the Amateur Yacht Research Society . The 2 photos were taken in the spring of 79 of Annapolis on my way home from the Bahamas as you can see the rig was quite light if unusual in appearance . It was absolutely the easiest boat I have ever single handed . 0 to full sail in 30 seconds (I timed it once ) and there was only one halyard for the storm jib ,the rest of the sails where bolted up and tensioned with a turnbuckle at the bottom . With such small tubes my 19 year old self could go hand over hand up the mast with a bosuns chair around my waist and throw a loop over the top to work on the rig.

My Dad is an engineer who was never afraid of taking his own path and never blew his own horn ,you can see this by his speed claims of 6 to 7 knots . Remember this was in the era of the Alberg ,Grampians so was quite fast at the time .I did see 16 knots once on a broad reach. This boat has the same basic shapes and characteristics as the PDQ36 which he also designed .

Please share this as you like, and if you want you can some of it on that thread .I think people might like to see the rig in action and I always thought it looked elegant under full sail .

It was sold in the late 80,s and went to Flint Michigan ,since then we have not seen it . It would be neat to find it .

THE address and phone # are decades out of date
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Old 28-11-2016, 15:20   #20
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Re: The A-Fame 'Mast'

That Tennant is Beautiful . takes a lot of guts to go that far out on the edge. Having the rig so far back appears to affect luff tension on the multiple jibs.
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Old 28-11-2016, 15:46   #21
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High Tacker commisioned 63' 'Catbird Suite"

The gentleman, 'High Tacker', who had that vessel commissioned had a very nice informative website up while he was trying to sell that vessel. he also entered a number of forum discussions explaining his choices, and sailing methods.

If you do an advanced search for High Tacker on the boatdesign.net forum I think you will find a lot of his contributions.
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Old 28-11-2016, 15:49   #22
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Re: The A-Fame 'Mast'

Speaking of strange masts. I saw one boat with the mast set on a 3 or 4... can't recall... diagonal spars... a tetrahedron or a pyramid form... in Newport anchorage last year. The boat I recall was in the 40- 50 foot range...
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Old 28-11-2016, 18:47   #23
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Dbl A-frame Rig

Lets see if I can modify the posting....
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Old 28-11-2016, 18:51   #24
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Dbl A-frame Rig

and the second article....
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Old 28-11-2016, 19:51   #25
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Re: The A-Fame 'Mast'

There was a boat with an A-frame for a time in the Alameda Estuary (San Francisco Bay area). It certainly looked interesting, and I'm all for niche boats, but not sure you can get a patent for a concept rather than a particular mechanism for creating that concept. Anyway, you might want to check the length of time to get a patent approcved. Last I heard, their backlog was many years.
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Old 28-11-2016, 20:33   #26
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Re: The A-Fame 'Mast'

There's another designer, Bernd Koehler, who advocates the A-frame rig. Not sure if any of his boats have been built with one though, as they come with a couple of rig options. Here's one such example VOYAGERpage

The catch, too, even if a new rig works, & works well, is that you're fighting a lot of entrenched ideas about masts, rigging, & sails/sailing. Along with a fair amount of money backing same. Since anytime such a switch is made, a number of companies will go bankrupt, & their employes will be looking for work. Ditto on all of the industries which work with or support said industries, & companies. Boat design & building, rigs & rigging, sails, & sail making, etc.

For example, this a big part of why renewable energy isn't more popular. The entire global economy is involved, & wants to keep the status quo.

Edit: I'm sure that this rig is one which has been well documented & tested by the Amateur Yacht Research Society www.AYRS.org Most likely, from an efficency standpoint, & a historical one.
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Old 28-11-2016, 21:11   #27
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Re: The A-Fame 'Mast'

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Originally Posted by gamayun View Post
There was a boat with an A-frame for a time in the Alameda Estuary (San Francisco Bay area). It certainly looked interesting, and I'm all for niche boats,
Would it have looked anything like this?





Quote:
....but not sure you can get a patent for a concept rather than a particular mechanism for creating that concept. Anyway, you might want to check the length of time to get a patent approcved. Last I heard, their backlog was many years.
Patents are not worth anything in these cases. They will most likely never reach any prime time usage, but they offer some interesting alternatives to the follow-the-leader designs.

Interestingly most of these concepts attempt to find alternatives to the conventional use of a mainsail.
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Old 28-11-2016, 22:08   #28
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Re: The A-Fame 'Mast'

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Would it have looked anything like this?




Patents are not worth anything in these cases. They will most likely never reach any prime time usage, but they offer some interesting alternatives to the follow-the-leader designs.

Interestingly most of these concepts attempt to find alternatives to the conventional use of a mainsail.
The boat above, or rather her rig, reminds me of what's typically constructed after a dismasting. Where you lash 2 spinnaker poles at one end, & erect them in order to fabricate a get home rig. In fairness, they do tend to work, albeit with less than ideal sailing performance.

The above boat is also reminiscent of some of the mast aft rigs on a few catamaran designs. Which, I can't say how well they sail.
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Old 29-11-2016, 00:35   #29
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Re: The A-Fame 'Mast'

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Would it have looked anything like this?


It could have been! I never saw it with its sails up. What do you know about this boat and how she sails?
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Old 29-11-2016, 01:10   #30
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Re: The A-Fame 'Mast'

Seen two ancient Wharram cats with that system. One lives on its' mooring in Batemans Bay. NSW Oz.
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