Tender for 40' Yacht ?

[akio.kanemoto]

OP,

I've just gone through this exercise and have read up on everything and like you I have a 40ft sailboat and like you am young and very strong.

I will prefix this with I'm not currently cruising, but am JUST about to go (house settles in December, so am now 100% committed, so gotta go!

For the past 6 years in Sydney, I have been ab(using) a 3.4m PVC inflatable which was sold to me by Sirocco (Oz company, made in China) as a Hypalon RIB. Dodgy sales practices aside this thing has been out in the sun for 10 hours a day, and has carried tonnes of stuff - including sharp metals, whole sheets of ply etc... it has had solvent spills on the tubes, hot bits of metal falling on it etc etc.. and thankfully it has coped very well.

Why this history? Because I'm not sure about the negative publicity about PVC - admittedly this is Sydney and not the tropics, but hey.

The thing you DO need to really look at though is the floor of a RIB - the thing that happened to me on the Sirocco is that the hull filled with water and it now easily weighs over 100kg.

To repeat: I think the most important thing with a RIB is that you MUST check how the floor is constructed. In this case, it was cored, and the leak was from an improperly sealed eye-bolt in the bow. (of course, Aluminium RIBs don't have this problem).

If you are going to buy a cored RIB, then you MUST take out all the fittings, ream out the core and pack with epoxy etc just like on a cored deck. All the sales people will tell you "don't worry mate, we're professionals and we used sealant everywhere" - but I really don't think sealant is enough in the long term.

So my purchasing decision was based on the following criteria:

1. Size when deflated (foredeck is small)
2. floor construction method
3. what size engine will it take
4. what size engine will it plane with and how easy is it to manhandle
5. in the very unlikely event that a manufacturer will honor its warranty, it would be nice to have an international warranty of some sort.

For "1" I ended up with two options - the Zodiac Cadet Compact 250 and the Mercury/Quicksilver Dynamic 250. Both will fit on my foredeck and still leave me a bit of space to walk.

For "2" however, the Mercury/Quicksilver (and most other RIBs I looked at), the floor was cored, and I have enough work to do without messing about packing cores on a dinghy when I've just done several hundred holes already for deck fittings on the big boat.. Zodiac was the only non-Al one I found with a single vacuumed resin/single skin glass floor with no core.

For "3" - all manufacturers are liars and they break it down by market segment, not about actual suitability. I confirmed this at the Mercury stand at the last boat show here as this has always bothered me: "why is one dinghy rated for 5HP and another VERY similar one is rated to 10HP?"... one immediately thinks quality/strength, but when you think about it - most is just market segmentation... So, the Mercury/Quicksilver was rated for 6HP (from memory) and the Zodiac was rated for 8HP, despite its (weaker) folding transom.

Now, I want to plane for the reasons Jim has pointed out above - it's about transport, not zooming around for fun or "coolness factor". We have a approx 2.3m draft, so will likely always be anchoring further out and travelling longer distances.

So at this stage, I was thinking Zodiac, despite the negative reviews and the PVC material versus Mercury's Hypalon.. it also has a folding transom, which means a more compact fit on my foredeck. So I then spoke to the Zodiac people WHO SWORE that I could get it to plane with 2 people with only a 3.5HP... yeah right. (I went for the max rated 8HP, which is actually the highest power you can get before the next weight bracket up from memory)

For 4: I'm strong. Really strong. But it doesn't count 100% when trying to balance on deck and carry an outboard! It definitely doesn't translate from land - i.e. I can carry a 42kg 18HP (Mercury/Tohatsu) on land, but wouldn't dream of manhandling it on deck.

So here is decision time - for me, I don't/can't have davits, have about 1m of freeboard and have a reverse transom, so the dinghy will have to be lifted using a sling and spin halyard directly onto the foredeck. I've tried a variety of options and this is the easiest for me: bring dinghy alongside beside foredeck, prepare sling, REMOVE OUTBOARD AND LIE DOWN IN DINGHY, attach halyard, crank away.

Once the dinghy is on the foredeck, I pick up the 8HP and walk it to the transom and put on the bracket. I've only done this in calm weather, and can attest that despite it's comparatively light weight (for me), it is not as easy as I thought it would be, as it's quite easy to lose balance and/or trip over the mountain of deck hardware I have. So without mechanical aids, I don't think I could reliably walk around a 15HP on deck. YMMV.

Food for thought regarding engine sizing.

Now, the other piece of information is that on the Zodiac 2.5m RIB, with an 8HP 2-stroke, we BARELY get on plane with 2 people. So if you want to plane and have the dinghy be more than a 100m max distance flat water putt-putt... then I don't think you can go smaller.

So in summary: get a solid floor (no core), and for a 2.5m length RIB, I think you'll need 8HP, which if you're strong enough, should be able to manhandle/walk around on deck (but it's not super easy, as on land).

AK.

[Jim Cate]

G'Day AK,

We're getting much closer to our return (9 Nov). When we finally meet up face to face I'll show you how we've dealt with the various 15 hp o/bs
that we've had over the years. Involves halyards, etc. Dead easy, essentially zero cost.

Cheers,

Jim

[dennisail]

AK, good post and nice info on the cored ribs. I had not considered that the core will fill with water. I am considering a Mercury 310 dynamic. I guess I will have to reglue any holes through the cored glass hull. I have found these as low as $1400 new. If I were you I would get a Tohatsu 9.8. This engine weighs 26kg, the same as a Yammy 8. At this weight I can manhandle this engine even on deck with some chop, and walk long distances with it on shore.

I almost purchased a Lexen 40 Hotel Tango. This one had a HUGE foredeck. In the end it was going to be too much of a fixer upper and I got a boat for not much more that will be more suitable for live aboard cruising (hunter 40.5) in the USA, despite the fact that it wont sail as well as the lexen.

Jim, what tender and motor are you using? I agree with your assessment on the pros of a planing dingy. I am cruising to enjoy myself. This will include day trips on the dingy with some lunch and snorkel gear for 2 of us. Exploring creeks etc. Slow displacement dingys are a PITA to even get from the deep water hole to the shore at the sandhills on Moreton island. The one we have is so bad we need to take 2 trips for 3 people as it will swamp with 3 in it unless there is zero chop. I think the number of passengers they rate them for is a joke. They must be assuming midgets.

[Mimsy]

Originally Posted by mbianka

I've had an 8 foot Porta Boat for ten years and love it.
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: REPORT FROM ANNAPOLIS: PART 5: A PORTA-BOTE IMPROVEMENT
It's light enough at about 50 lbs that I can bring it on board myself. I can carry it on bord folded or unfolded. Plus I can stand in it and fish. It rows much better than an inflatable too.

Glad to hear you like your Porta-Bote as that is the way we are leaning just now. Being able to get it on deck myself is a really, really big deal for me. I saw them in person at the Annapolis show and was surprised at how sturdy they felt. I;ve heard from owners that it takes a bit to get used to being able to feel swell but all who actually own them like them.

Worst case scenario we can always buy a RIB just about anywhere should we decide we need one.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by dennisail

Jim, what tender and motor are you using? I agree with your assessment on the pros of a planing dingy. I am cruising to enjoy myself. This will include day trips on the dingy with some lunch and snorkel gear for 2 of us. Exploring creeks etc. Slow displacement dingys are a PITA to even get from the deep water hole to the shore at the sandhills on Moreton island. The one we have is so bad we need to take 2 trips for 3 people as it will swamp with 3 in it unless there is zero chop. I think the number of passengers they rate them for is a joke. They must be assuming midgets.

G'DAy Dennis,

We're using a 3.5 M Gemini RIB (Alloy hull, hypalon tubes) and a 15 hp 2 stroke Yamaha. Good combo, but the hypalon used in the Gemini is kinda thin and it isn't holding up as well as I'd like. The Aussie Swift dinks use the same alloy hull and a better grade of Hypalon, and when I re-tube it here in a year or so I'm going to try and get them to do it.

Our reason for this choice was really good aluminium work in the hull, a flat floor in the passenger area, and the lightest weight of any comparable size RIB that we could fine (47 kg). And if one is cruising in the island Pacific, Yamaha has the best parts availability, and has proven to be a great motor for us. We've used OMC and Suzuki before and wouldn't go back to either in these areas.

Cheers,

Jim

[dennisail]

Jim I must say the weight of that dink is amazing for a 3.5m. I thought the dynamic 310 at the same weight was good. I guess it was pricey. Are you concerned about theft?

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Vasco

find the hard dink.

excellent point!! I've probably got a dozen photos of the same phenomenon.

There was a long time when I was convinced that I could find something better/more efficient/sexier/lighter/more seaworthy than the standard 10' RIB with a 15 hp. As a result, I've owned more dinks than I care to admit on a public forum.

I'm happy to report that I finally got smart.

[downunder]

There are quite a few NZ made alluminim RIBS
The NIAD ribs used to be the workhorse for the Queensland charter industry . Perhaps not light enough for you but certainly durable with the inner tube protected by external cover.
Looking at Mackay marina the Yacht club has one as do many of the charter vessels. I think a firm on the Gold Coast builds them under licence from NZ. http://www.naiad.co.nz/
http://www.woodymarine.com.au/gallery/#3001
Another posibility available in Aust
http://www.southernpacific.co.nz/shearwater.htm
The 310 model weighs 84 lbs 6 year warranty

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by dennisail

Jim I must say the weight of that dink is amazing for a 3.5m. I thought the dynamic 310 at the same weight was good. I guess it was pricey. Are you concerned about theft?

Dennis, it was competitive in price with most other similar dinks in Oz, and cheaper than Avon and several other Hypalon models. Being in Oz, it cost more than I wanted to pay!

And theft? Hell yes I'm concerned. Damn thing got nicked in Hobart a few years ago when it was nearly new. Idiots took the 12 year old Suzuki off of it, tipped some petrol into it and set it alight. We eventually got the charred remains back. I spent a good 20 hours cleaning the hull up and got new tubes installed (for about one half the price of a new one) and it has served us well since then. The light weight is a good thing for us old farts.

Cheers,

Jim

[dennisail]

Damn the tohatsu 9.8 I wanted has been sold!!! I think I will stick to my planned $1400 10 footer. With the amount of thiefs out there can't afford to replace expensive tenders. In my profile pic to the left you can see the nose of a cheap inflatable. Its one of the cheapest ones you can get from supercheap and we rowed it, thanks to the low life who stole our other one with motor at the time.

I checked out that banana boat. I have seen them before and I like the idea for many applications, bur for this boat I think a rib will suit me fine.

[akio.kanemoto]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

G'Day AK,

We're getting much closer to our return (9 Nov). When we finally meet up face to face I'll show you how we've dealt with the various 15 hp o/bs
that we've had over the years. Involves halyards, etc. Dead easy, essentially zero cost.

Cheers,

Jim

Hi Jim,

Looking forward to it!

As you'll see, I have plenty of spare halyards - so I'm all ears.

I'm almost finished with the Kiwigrip on deck too, doing two coats, almost ready to move aboard when I finish the inside non-slip (actually will start a new thread on this in a sec!)

AK

[akio.kanemoto]

Originally Posted by dennisail

I almost purchased a Lexen 40 Hotel Tango. This one had a HUGE foredeck. In the end it was going to be too much of a fixer upper and I got a boat for not much more that will be more suitable for live aboard cruising (hunter 40.5) in the USA, despite the fact that it wont sail as well as the lexen.

I just googled Hotel Tango and saw the pics - looks like a really nice boat.

It's not the same as mine though. Actually, I can't find any info at all on mine, apart from the fact that it had "Lexcen 40" written on it.

Whenever I look up Lexcen 40 - I find designs similar to Hotel Tango - quite beamy and apparently excellent cruising boats. Mine is very narrow, and full standing headroom is only available at the companionway - after that it goes down to 1.7m or so.

Apparently mine was launched as "Dynasty", but that's all I know. :\

[Amapola]

The tender needs to be comfortable for the admiral, captain, & crew. Get a RIB.

[dennisail]

AK. Hotel tango was quite limited in head room too. I am a little over 6 foot and my head was almost touching in the companion way and it got smaller toward the front. The boat was quite rough inside and we would have wanted a headliner, possibly some nice wood slats and the 10mm they would have added would have made it too small for me. Still. I thought it was a good boat, but I wanted to cruise, not spend a bomb of money and time fixing that particular old boat. It would have been more to be proud of when done up than a prod boat, but sometimes you just have to prioritize. I still love old boats

Guys will a 10 foot tender with 9.9 hp plane 2 adults of 360lbs plus fuel and a bit of gear?

[As Time Goes By]

Originally Posted by dennisail

I just like the idea of saving weight where possible. I have been looking and there are a few used 2 strokes out there. My planned rib so far will be a PVC (for $1400 I don't care if it falls apart in 6 years) Mercury Dynamic 310 with Tohatsu 9.8. This will be 100lbs for the rib and 60lbs for the engine. So a 10" rib with 9.8hp that will weigh 160lbs. That is light enough to carry up into bushes to hide, or drag along low tide flats if necessary. Should go very well with this light weight too. My current rib weighs 520lbs!!!

Having had tenders stolen before and having known of many that have been stolen I do not want to spend up big.

Dennis,

Where did you find the Mercury 310 for $1400?

Bob