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Old 20-05-2010, 16:25   #31
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Sea trial tomorrow hopefully!

Got the engine survey back.

They say transmission has .4% water in it and noted that was abnormal. Also had enough ferrous debris for a magnet to stick to bottle.

Recommended change of all fluids (oil is over 2 yrs old but not over 100hours--ouch), check for alignments and new motor mounts. Exhaust hose clamps are rusted.

Motor oil lab result came back as "serious problem unlikely". Viscosity slightly high with some fuel present. After-market additive probably in use. Wear levels normal.

Transmission oil came back: Oil change appropriate. Ferrous debris high enough for magnet to stick. Water also slightly high. Check alignment and mounting bolts.

Any of this sound like a deal breaker to you guys?
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Old 21-05-2010, 14:55   #32
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I wouldn't say a deal breaker BUT a sign that the current owner has slipped on his maintenance. Assuming the two year old oil is tranny oil, not engine oil? And there's water and substantial amounts of metal in the tranny, that indicates time to have the tranny pulled and examined for wear and a probable rebuild, assuming parts are still available. (If the engine oil hasn't been changed in two years...that's something else again.)

But reasonable men might say, let's put the cost of a transmission rebuild into an escrow account, cost based on one or two estimates from shop(s) you both trust, or a dealer (in the worst case). Excess metal in the tranny has to be looked at, and someone has to consider the outcome of that.

Fuel in the motor oil could be coming past the rings, a compression check and leakdown test are not too much to ask to look into that. Could also be as simple as just using the engine for a few minutes for docking, and never getting it hot enough to cook off the fuel that normally gets past the rings and into the oil, but it is worth checking into--especially if the viscosity is high, indicating the current owner is trying to remedy SOMEthing. Today's oils don't need magic additives unless there's a problem like leaking rings that someone is trying to address by thickening up the oil.

No deal breakers--just a matter of looking a bit further into these things. A question of who'll pay for the looking, and whether you want to just go ahead with the sale and put aside escrow in case there are problems, or look into things and make an adjustment before doing the sale, without escrow. Should come out in the same place either way.
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Old 21-05-2010, 17:56   #33
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some guys don't ever change the tranny lube. One easy way to check is to change the fluid prior to the sea trial, and then have it retested afterword. Assuming that you'll run the engine for at least an hour with the new fluid. If there's water in the lube at that point, factor in the cost of a tranny rebuild.
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Old 21-05-2010, 18:03   #34
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another thought: you need to realize that you're dealing with someone who goes into a mechanical survey without bothering to change fluids beforehand. What's that take, 30 minutes? This is probably not the most mechanically adept boat owner around, and the boat is probably suffering as a result.
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Old 21-05-2010, 18:50   #35
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Subtraction?

Can you deduct the cost of a new transmission and 80% of the engine from the purchase price?
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Old 24-05-2010, 16:21   #36
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Well....

We bought it. =)

Found some of spare burners in the bottom of a locker for the stove too.

Hope the engine/transmission hold out for while. Should be interesting this coming weekend changing oil for the first time.
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Old 24-05-2010, 16:49   #37
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Congratulations!

And you may be able to get a magnetic drain plug for the tranny, to capture any more metal bits floating around in it. Or (very carefully) be able to attach a small strong magnet to the existing drain plug to do that job.
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Old 24-05-2010, 17:02   #38
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The boat is Perkins 4.108 powered with a HBW125. I read the shop manuals and see that the oil change procedure is to siphon off from the dipstick hole and then back into it as well. Is there an accessible drainplug? And if it is underneath the transmission or in a very difficult place, is it worth it to still install the magnet? If you do... How often to pull the plug and clean it?

My plan was to run the engine for a while to warm up all the oil and hopefully stir it up a bit and then change it with Dex III ATF fluid. Doesn't look like it takes much. Although I've never changed oil with a siphon pump before, so it should be fun.
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Old 24-05-2010, 17:07   #39
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Old 24-05-2010, 17:34   #40
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Buy an extractor pump with a reservoir like this one http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|311|296536|314179&id=1298219. You'll need it to change the engine oil as well as the transmission fluid. I would hazard a guess that the owner never changed the transmission oil which would explain the water and metal content in the oil. Not good for the transmission but hopefully not fatal.

Believe I've seen kits that basically are a strong magnet and some epoxy to glue it to the outside of the case. Not the greatest solution but does work to capture any loose ferrous metal rummaging around inside the engine/transmission.

There are no drain plugs on marine engines or if there is, don't ever ever use it. Dumping the oil in the engine pan or, worse yet, the bilge would create a godawful mess In addition to the cleaning headache, it could get you a big fine if the bilge pump dumps even a little residue overboard.

If the boat has a club footed staysail. Undue the club and drop it overboard. The things are a menace, in the way and usually result in a poorly setting sail. Sheet the staysail to the cabin top via short 1-2 foot tracks and cars. The winches for the staysail can double as reefing winches if you run the reefing lines back to the cockpit.

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Old 24-05-2010, 18:03   #41
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Target, I don't know that engine & tranny. When I hear "engine" and "oil" in the same sentence I tend to think "engine oil" not tranny fluid. Engine oil rarely has a drain plug on the pan on small craft because there's a chance the plug will loosen and dump the oil. Using one of the suction bottles through the filler tube really is the best way to access most of them, the pump/drill/wind-up gizmos just don't work as well. You'll find that when you pull the oily plastic tube out of the engine it whips around and makes a mess, so paper towels and a couple of plastic bags (to bag the hose AND the whole pump bottle) are needed. The mess stays in the bags, the bags go out with the oil waste, the pump gets stored back in the original box--in another plastic bag!

Often there's a drain plug on the top or side of the transmission unit, if there's none on yours...just do the best you can. Epoxying that magnet to the side of the case may at least trap metal fragments in that area, but a couple of extra tranny fluid changes may also be worth doing, to try getting as much of it out as you can.
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Old 25-05-2010, 00:03   #42
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Congratulations!

Our BW gearbox has a drainplug. Lower right side when looking forward. If your Perkins 4.108 is like our Perkins 4.108 you have a drain plug for the oil but there's no need to ever use it. Our Engine has a built in pump for changing the oil. Just put a can underneath it, pump for 5 minutes, in with new oil and hey it's done!

Good luck!

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