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Old 12-05-2010, 20:52   #16
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Target, they only ruined it if you got cleaned out. But if you had any free cash to BUY while things were down...as usual, folks made money on this.

Tate, an insurance survey will be looking at safety-related issues. Whether the seacocks are in proper order, whether there are fire dangers, whether the USCG required safety equipment is present, etc. A life raft is NOT REQUIRED on a private yacht, so it may be simpler to just remove it before the survey rather than debate whether it needs a recertification. If the raft is 10 years old--recertification oftens means "condemned and replaced" or "repaired at unfeasible cost".

If there is "nonessential" electrical equipment and wiring that is a real rats' nest, you might rather totally remove it, than leave it for the insurance surveyor to comment on. As far as he's concerned, nav lights, VHF, essential systems are the only thing he needs to see in good order. If the PO wired in a batch of gonzo AC sockets--get rid of them now, one less fire hazard to be debated.

If you contact the local USCG Auxiliary, they will come around and give you a FREE safety inspection, no tickets, no problems if they find shortcomings. And that gives you a chance to address those issues before the insurance surveyor comes around, so you look better a that time. If you pass the USCGA courtesy inspection, they give you a nice big decal to put on the boat, and that will often prevent other safety inspections on the water. (They figure, you've already taken the initiative, they have better things to do.) Might also impress the insurance surveyor.
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Old 14-05-2010, 04:59   #17
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One thing that was pretty funny is that onboard is an outboard motor branded "Eska". The broker said it was an old Sears model...
Although it is anybody’s guess what its shape might be after this many years, Eska’s could be marvelously reliable little motors… I had one for my dink years ago, it was used when I got it, far more used when sold ten years later, never ever lived indoors and all it required to start first or second pull was a fresh plug each year and gas with not too much water in it… never serviced the carb and the only storage it received was to clamp it on boat’s stern-rail bracket (was living aboard then), uncovered, when we deflated the Zodiac for the winter... A couple of years ago I tried to find one to use as a kicker for our B24...

Had a Perkins 4-108 as well -- golden… keep the fuel reasonably clean, change the oil every five years or so <G>, replace the zincs and rubber stuff, use regularly and it’ll run forever…
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Old 14-05-2010, 08:05   #18
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Although it is anybody’s guess what its shape might be after this many years, Eska’s could be marvelously reliable little motors… I had one for my dink years ago, it was used when I got it, far more used when sold ten years later, never ever lived indoors and all it required to start first or second pull was a fresh plug each year and gas with not too much water in it… never serviced the carb and the only storage it received was to clamp it on boat’s stern-rail bracket (was living aboard then), uncovered, when we deflated the Zodiac for the winter... A couple of years ago I tried to find one to use as a kicker for our B24...

Had a Perkins 4-108 as well -- golden… keep the fuel reasonably clean, change the oil every five years or so <G>, replace the zincs and rubber stuff, use regularly and it’ll run forever…
You know... If that Eska runs and we actually use it, we'll seem so salty beyond our years. Maybe I can spin a yarn about it.
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Old 14-05-2010, 10:25   #19
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I think my insurance company just made me sign a waiver to not file a claim involving those items that I didn't correct. Now maybe that could get complicated, depending on the item, but you might see if they'll go for that........
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Old 15-05-2010, 05:41   #20
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... Eska’s could be marvelously reliable little motors …
Eska began selling its first outboard in 1960, and were about as simple as an outboard could be. Eska took a two-cycle, single cylinder air cooled powerhead built by Tecumseh and attached it to a Clinton lower unit. They remained pretty much unchanged until 1973, when Eska introduced a two cylinder water cooled outboard producing 9.9 and/or 15 HP. Eska went out of business in 1987. Eska supplied motors to many companies such as Sears, Pennys, Grants and others.

Eska Outboard Motors
eska outboard motor parts

“Old” Outboards (including Eskas)
A Primer on Old Outboards
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Old 16-05-2010, 20:31   #21
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forgot to mention kerosene. I like it as a cooking fuel. It burns hot, way hotter than alcohol and probably just as hot as propane. It's available almost everywhere and you can burn paint thinner/mineral spirits in place of the kerosene if that is cheaper/more readily available. Kerosene is a safe fuel. It will not produce vapors that lurk in the bilge waiting to test your hull to deck joint integrity. I've used kerosene for years and have never noticed an odor except when we didn't properly preheat a burner. The alcohol that we use to preheat the burner is what stinks but it burns off very quickly. Kerosene was a very efficient fuel. We carried enough for us to cruise on for more than a year without a refill. We only ate out a few times so the kerosene cooked almost all our meals.

Kerosene is not instant on. You have to preheat the burner with alcohol, takes about a minute and then you are in business. We had a lot of problems initially with our first kerosene stove. We tried burning #1 diesel which totally gunked up the burners and resulted in a replacement of the burners in the stove. We tried adjusting the flame but still had niggling problems with the burners. Finally, we started burning mineral spirits and ran the burners wide open and haven't had a problem since. We control the heat with cast iron diffusers and the stove works like a charm. Oven temp ran in the 350-375 range and my wife turned out some awesome baked goods from that oven.

The big negative is that the burners are NLA. Primus that used to be the primary supplier no longer makes them. There was a company in Portugal, IIRC, that was making burners until recently but they apparently are out of business or no longer making them. Supposedly there burners were an improvement on Primus burner. So if your burner is mucked up, you are in deep trouble. I believe all the the internal parts like the needle, needle rack, burner orifice, gaskets are all still around, just not the burner body.

Propane is a great fuel if you can live with the bottles and the explosive potential. Propane is not available everywhere. There are pockets of out of the way places where you simply cannot get it as a cruiser. In most instances, propane fill ups aren't convenient to the water front. You may have to schlep your bottle for miles to get a refill. Because of the propensity of propane to go boom, you have to be very careful with the installation of the system and religious about taking precautions in its use.

We are sticking with our current Taylor's 029 and SeaSwing with a Primus #45 kerosene stove. We have a stash of burners, just in case, so doubt we'll outlive them given the reliability of the stoves
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Old 17-05-2010, 08:55   #22
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Rover,

No one has fabricated new burners? Is it just a lost cause if you have that stove and your burner is shot?

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Old 17-05-2010, 10:49   #23
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rover, some folks have had fires because of the alcohol preheat procedure. Instead of spraying alcohol, you can use "fire starting jelly". Dice up some white paraffin wax (canning wax) in a jelly jar, add naphtha or kerosene ("paraffin oil") and let marinate for a week or two. The result is a wax paste, and you can easily pack it in a toothpaste tube or simply measure out a controlled amount each time, so you get a spill-proof amount on each burner when you want to preheat it.

Some folks don't mind the smell of kero but for some of us--it is the same as diesel. Always objectionable, no matter how clean the fuel and the burn. There really are genetic differences (some people simply can't smell or taste certain tastes) as well as major differences in how sensitive noses are.

Someone who is hyperosmotic can smell a cigarette burning a hundred yards upwind. To another cigarette smoke? They say there's no smell. GI's in Vietnam were warned about that, the smell of your shower soap, your deoderant, your cigarette, could all warn the enemy of your presence 100 yards away. All things "we" don't normally have any awareness of smelling.

Kero and diesel? Same thing. There *is* an odor, the only question is whether it bothers you. (Like eight foot waves after a meal of bad seafood.(G) )
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Old 17-05-2010, 11:33   #24
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I don't know what the prospects are for getting new burners. I recently dealt with Fogas in Sweden www.fogas.se to get some gaskets to resurrect an Optimus 45 kero stove on a SeaSwing that I bought. They simply told me that there were no burners available at the moment. Didn't dig deeper as my Swedish isn't so hot, though their English is light years better than my Sverige. Others have reported trying other sources without luck, though. Don't know whether the lack of new burners is permanent or just a break in production. Hopefully it's the latter for those that don't have spares. Have never had a problem with the alcohol preheat, btw. The little bit that you use for preheating wouldn't cause a problem even if you completely missed the burner.

Pressure Alcohol stoves are an entirely different problem as the alchohol under pressure continues to feed a fire. If a leak isn't detected quickly, it can flood the stove and surrounding areas creating a huge fire risk. Still, alcohol fires don't go boom and can be put out with water. The smell of alcohol stove is particularly obnoxious to me. For me, the fatal problem with alcohol stoves is the low BTU output of the burners. Takes forever to boil water and won't boil large pots of water. Forgot Maine Lobster with an alcohol stove, btdt.

As far as kerosene smell with my stove, I can't smell it at all while it's burning. In any case, I am not bothered by the smell of diesel or kerosene. It's not that I can't smell it, it just doesn't negatively affect me. Guess I've been driving my 300D Mercedes too long. What, Diesels smelly and noisy, no way!!

Do find the smell of propane gas to be especially obnoxious. That's a fortunate thing as we have had a few incidents with the propane burners in our home accidentally going out. Anyway, to each his own.
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Old 17-05-2010, 12:25   #25
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"Do find the smell of propane gas to be especially obnoxious. "
Actually the propane has no smell. What you smell is something added in--to ensure that everyone CAN smell a leak. Designed to be uniquely distasteful!
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Old 17-05-2010, 20:11   #26
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Propane is a great fuel if you can live with the bottles and the explosive potential. Propane is not available everywhere. There are pockets of out of the way places where you simply cannot get it as a cruiser. In most instances, propane fill ups aren't convenient to the water front. You may have to schlep your bottle for miles to get a refill. Because of the propensity of propane to go boom, you have to be very careful with the installation of the system and religious about taking precautions in its use.
The situation you describe is very specific to your location. None of the people I met on our round the world trip had kerosene, most had propane/butane, some had diesel and some electrical stoves.

I have never seen a propane/butane bottle explode but I know two people burnt badly by their own kerosene stoves.

Propane/butane availability is a no-issue as one small bottle serves for nearly a month. Re-fills are a minor nuisance as most cruisers just DIY in areas where the local red tape does not allow for filling "foreign" bottles.

So I say stick to whatever fuel gives you a kick, but the propane/butane danger/re-fill hassle is an urban legend.

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Old 18-05-2010, 09:48   #27
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Any port that handles cargo, or any town that has warehouses, also has fork lifts that run on either large battery packs, or propane tanks. There may not be any BBQ stores in town, but if you can spot fork lifts, you may be able to find propane.

I guess if we all switched to LiFePo4 batteries, we could use electric stoves, too? :-)
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Old 18-05-2010, 15:06   #28
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Provided the batteries are many enough - yes. But this is not a very likely scenario, is it. Otherwise the electric stoves run when the genset is up.

b.
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Old 18-05-2010, 15:21   #29
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1) Engine has 2500 hours but it ran well while motoring for around 4 total hours. Diesel survey happens today. Perkins 4-108.

3) The electrical on the boat is stupid. If we buy it, I'm tearing it all out and starting over from scratch. I've never seen such a rats next. This might be my biggest overall concern.

4) I think the jib track on the port side is leaking. I've read a lot of blogs about cap rail/jib track leaks on westsails and it seems fixable. The cabinetry on the port side was wet at the bottom, which leads me to suspect this. However, we could not find any drip lines along the hull/cabinets leading down that way. Good news is no mold though.

8) Has a Monitor windvane (good!) that looks like it may have been the first one ever made (bad). However, it comes with a lot of parts and the surveyor said it looks good and would probably work fine if we changed the gears. They had some play in them.
1: Ours has 3000 hours on it and runs great.

3: Good. A boat that old needs rewiring.

4: Both our tracks are leaking, as are our 13 portholes, 3 skylights and most of the stantions Good thing they are easy fixes. Lift off, put on gooy stuff, screw back on.

8. Great! They all have play in the gears. The question is; how much does yours have? Anyway, servicing them isn't rocket science and I know from personal experience that the support you get from the manufacturer, if needed, is great.

Good luck!

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Old 18-05-2010, 15:29   #30
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Well, to use propane you should have a properly vented locker and a "sniffer" that will shut of the gas if it detects anything. My boat has the Xintex but there are other options.
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