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Old 05-12-2014, 03:53   #151
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

There was a lot of video on the TV News tonight in Sydney on this. It showed the video of them running aground and also the crew salvaging items from the wreck.

It was also claimed that they are going to salvage the boat, repair it and sail the next leg of the race. I think this is very, very optimistic. I doubt that they would even be able to salvage the boat off the reef given how remote it is, let alone repair it enough to continue racing.

Also someone mentioned that radar should have shown the reef. No way, the reef and island are so low there is very little chance that they would have sent back a reflection.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:03   #152
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

... Vestas-Navigator Wouter Verbraak admits on his facebook page that he made a huge mistake and explains how it happenend ...

Hat off for telling the naked truth!

Carsten
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:13   #153
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

Care to quote him for us?
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:27   #154
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

... maybe easier than quoting: walking tall | Sailing Anarchy ...

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Old 05-12-2014, 07:22   #155
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

I don't think there is really anything to be learned from this unfortunate mistake.

But it does serve as a good reminder that sometimes the biggest variable error in your navigation can be complacency in relatively benign conditions.

There was enough eyes watching that yachts position that someone should have noticed the navigation error
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:47   #156
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

I blame the skipper. Really. It's his job to make sure everyone else is doing their job. Someone didn't do their job and he didn't do his, result they hit the reef.

I get it that the island/reef were originally part of an exclusion zone lifted at the last minute and it was presumed the route review and hazard identification was going to have to be done enroute and that for what ever reason it wasn't. That's on the navigator.

Verifying that that work had been completed? That was on the skipper.

In my experience, bad things don't just happen. They happen as the result of a series of series of poor decisions/unfortunate events.

I was disappointed in the skipper when he said while the ultimate responsibility was his that anybody in a organization or business has to trust people below them. Really? If everybody can just trust everybody then why bother to have a guy in charge in the first place?

I would have much rather seen him say "I am responsible for what happened because it is my job to make sure others are doing theirs" because really, he is.

On the whole the crew had their trust in the skipper, but he didn't come through for them.
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:32   #157
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

I an sure there is a lot of soul searching going on amongst all the watchkeers who would have had access to the ECS.
While the skipper is ultimately responsible, each watchkeeper carries a navigational responsibility to confirm the safety of the designated "Navigator's" Strategy on their watch

Perhaps Fatique and racing tunnel vision contibuted ultimately to navigational complacency
But that error is shared by the whole crew and maybe made worse by a skipper who did not encourage cross checks in navigation by the watchkeeper.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:36   #158
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
...
But that error is shared by the whole crew ...
Even by those that were out of watch and asleep?
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:41   #159
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
I blame the skipper. Really. It's his job to make sure everyone else is doing their job. Someone didn't do their job and he didn't do his, result they hit the reef.
,,.
The ultimate responsibility is always to the skipper but this boat had a big crew, and a navigator. If the navigator (that was asleep) had any doubts he should have appointed somebody to do the Job...or maybe the boat should have always a navigator on (a delegated one) while the main navigator sleeps, one that would be responsible for the safe navigation of the vessel.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:56   #160
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

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Even by those that were out of watch and asleep?
Yes.. As said above, this was a large professional crew.
Every watchkeeper should have already been aware they were approaching a reef system in that area, if they had bothered to have flown the anticipated route

At handover they would have reminded their relief of the approaching danger.

The inexcusable fact that the whole crew were not aware of a well charted reef in thier area is a shared failure of fumbling around in the dark.
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Old 05-12-2014, 11:02   #161
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

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(...)

Also someone mentioned that radar should have shown the reef. No way, the reef and island are so low there is very little chance that they would have sent back a reflection.
A new gen radar could.

I have seen plastic mooring balls and wooden stakes. Others claim similar sightings.

I think they were not watching that radar, nor were they, clearly, watching their plotter.

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Old 05-12-2014, 11:30   #162
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
The ultimate responsibility is always to the skipper but this boat had a big crew, and a navigator. If the navigator (that was asleep) had any doubts he should have appointed somebody to do the Job...or maybe the boat should have always a navigator on (a delegated one) while the main navigator sleeps, one that would be responsible for the safe navigation of the vessel.
Yep.

The navigator:

1) was tired,
2) may not have previewed the projected track in proper zoom level,
3) was not aware that there was a shift of the object with zooming,
4) did not warn the cockpit crew accordingly,
5) went to sleep,
6) heard a loud band and probably got tossed out of his pipe cot,
7) forgot to put his pants on.

Is this what they call "to be caught with ones pants down?"

Things happen when we get so very tired. Professional or amateur. I feel for this guy. I hope there are people around who will give him all support and love a person needs at such a bad moment.

PS Maybe the one without pants was another guy yet. Hard to say on a shaky flir video.

PS2 I absolutely love the video. Danes without pants or not, this is the first time I could watch a boat crashing into the reef. Great job VOR media moguls!

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Old 05-12-2014, 11:40   #163
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

“Dongfeng Race Team reporter Yann Riou notes how they also had the Cargados Carajos Shoals directly in their path. Skipper Charles Caudrelier had noticed this archipelago a few days earlier, but it’s worth noting that it’s actually pretty hard to find. In fact, to see it on our electronic charts, you have to zoom right in on top of it. But how and why would you zoom into it if you don’t know it’s there in the first place? So whilst we don’t know exactly what happened on Vestas, we can imagine how it happened.”

I think the italicized text is a very good question. Looking at the various zooms on their software reveals two very different pictures. Zoomed out, it looks like you can sail right through if you pick your line. Zooming in it's clear that there is no route through whatsoever. But zoomed out it's very deceptive; there's no indication of the reef at all, and the data looks pretty resolved. Weird.

“Vestas Wind navigator Wouter Verbraak is one of the best, and firmly falls into the category of a superb yachtsman and navigator. He is one who understands the strengths and limitations of digital tools more than most will ever do. And one of the nicest guys in the sport to boot. Mistakes happen. Just glad they are all safe and uninjured.”

Verbraak takes responsibility and mentions that he did survey the area before turning in and felt comfortable with the depths he saw. Pretty clearly he did not zoom in adequately, much less acquaint himself with the area through other sources beforehand. But fatigue, course changes, and dealing with immediate challenging conditions no doubt contributed to that one catastrophic oversight.

As for responsibility, while the skipper is ultimately responsible, it's hard to lay blame on the watch crew without knowing exactly what procedures they had in place regarding watch keeping responsibilities, communication between watch captains and the navigator, etc.

That video is frightening. I can only imagine the moment of fear right after the first impact, in the dark, sledding along at 19 knots, in the middle of virtually nowhere. Can't have been a feeling any of them wants to remember.
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Old 05-12-2014, 12:06   #164
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

Comparing official S57 and S63 ENC charts with C-maps, it is striking how much better the ENC charts are at showing dangers even zoomed out on small scale charts. I have checked the South China Sea area and the Coral Sea, but don't have access to ENC charts for the Cargados Carajos Area, but I'm sure the same observation holds. This raises a few questions.......
  • Why did Vestas use C-map and not the official S63 charts?
  • Why does C-map not clearly indicate dangers even in smaller scale charts? It's a choice they have made. Why?
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Old 05-12-2014, 12:13   #165
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
.....................The navigator:

1) was tired,
2) may not have previewed the projected track in proper zoom level,
3) was not aware that there was a shift of the object with zooming,
4) did not warn the cockpit crew accordingly,
5) went to sleep,
6) heard a loud band and probably got tossed out of his pipe cot,
7) forgot to put his pants on.
8) made a mistake with the AP (+10 or -10)
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