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Old 25-12-2011, 20:44   #31
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Re: Tayana 42 for sale in Florida

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
The problem with teak decks is not replacing the teak but the coring in the deck under because of the thousands of scews that may have caused leaks into the core. Fixing it is not that big a deal for an amateur but is a whole bunch of hours.
Exactly my point prior. On another thread regarding teak decks I got mildly blasted by the teak deck owners for daring to say teak deck lead to bad cores eventually. I have re-cored 3 decks. Two of my own that were F/G but poor deck hardware mounting. I knew it when I bought the boats but I purchased them for 20% of normal value and like you say, it's tons of labor. The third boat I did for the owner of a Peterson 44 with teak decks. Luckily, he did it in time and there was only 2 areas with 1 foot square soft spots, so we only had to inject epoxy and not tear out. He filled thousands of holes with epoxy/cabosil/mill-fibers cocktail. I did the fairing and Polyurethane non-skid. I traded labor for a roller furler because I was outfitting yet another boat for myself...will I ever learn?
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Old 26-12-2011, 05:13   #32
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Re: Tayana 42 for sale in Florida

Reading your reply,How do you know which area is soft and which is not,Moister meater sounding ect,I have been told by a surveyor that moister meter reads high in a 2 sq ft area in the aft deck section`this is thru teak overlay,if the core is wet how will epoxy injection work?Any insight will be appreciated.
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Old 26-12-2011, 06:44   #33
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Re: Tayana 42 for sale in Florida

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Im looking at a Tayana 42 in florida that needs a lot work.

the guy is asking 28000


what do you guys think

Well when you ask "what do you guys think" on here I knew it was going to be a good ole CF beat down. Truth is in this case every one is right. I have owned many boats from 18-45ft and every time I bought a boat at a price to good to be true it was. Its hard when you get that itch and your picturing yourself sailing along in this boat and have even convinced yourself 2k for the motor etc. As soon as I heared that was your number for the motor I knew you had already fallen in love with this boat you had never seen. I have been there and every time I "went for it" it got expensive very very fast. If I were you and I still wanted that boat I would pay for a very good survay. I would then take that survay along with everything else and have a yard bid every job needed.

Now this is the most important part. Take a vacation day on the day the yard is to call back with the bids to do all the work needed because you will no doubt have a stroke when you hear the number spoken out loud. And at that time you will be VERY happy you never bought this boat.
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Old 26-12-2011, 06:53   #34
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Re: Tayana 42 for sale in Florida

you may want to have a look at Lackey Sailing LLC | Restoring and Rebuilding Great* Boats to get some idea of what you may be letting your self in for. Just remember that this guy has a whole lot of experience in boat yards, working as a surveyor and has well set up covered workshop.

Having said that i bought a 43 foot fixer upper, spent months working on it, cruised it for a while and got back the purchase price. BUT i have never added up the box of reciepts for boat parts, haul outs, yard fees ..... They are the price of experience lol

Good luck what ever you decide
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Old 26-12-2011, 08:03   #35
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Re: Tayana 42 for sale in Florida

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Reading your reply,How do you know which area is soft and which is not,Moister meater sounding ect,I have been told by a surveyor that moister meter reads high in a 2 sq ft area in the aft deck section`this is thru teak overlay,if the core is wet how will epoxy injection work?Any insight will be appreciated.
Hi Casual...I assume you are responding to my reply. I skipped a number of steps here with deck repair since this thread was more about cost of the refit rather than deck repair. You and the surveyor are quite correct. But measuring moisture through teak would not tell you if the core is damaged or not. It would only tell you if the teak is damp which it surely should be...it's wood. But...if core under a deck is wet and delam has "just started", then a drying out process is required after drilling a series of holes through the upper skin. Heat lamps, space heater and dehumidifiers can be used under the deck if accessible. Then a penetrating epoxy is followed. This has alcohol in it which "combines" with water, which aids in it's evaporation. Then a regular epoxy glue is injected in the holes to more ore less bridge the two skins. Hope this less brief description helps.
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Old 26-12-2011, 08:12   #36
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Re: Tayana 42 for sale in Florida

Helmanta,

I would steer clear of this one because:

1. A rebuilt engine will be double your estimate at least
2. Teak decks are a nightmare to replace. I've been removing and painting mine since October, 2009 and hope to be finished by June, 2012.
3. Based on you description, the boat sank, which means that the bulkheads are probably delaminating.
4. It's cheaper in the long run to buy an old boat that someone else has gone through. Doing the work yourself will take three times as long and cost twice what you estimated.

I learned points 1 - 4 the hard way. A wise man learns from other's follies.

Best of luck either way.
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Old 26-12-2011, 08:28   #37
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Re: Tayana 42 for sale in Florida

Celestial Sailors fix is for a deck core that is wet but not rotten or small areas only that are rotten. If there are large areas of the deck with rotten core, the fix is to remove the top or bottom layer of glass laminate, clean out the rotten core, epoxy in new core, and relaminate the FRP layer. The fix for a deck with large areas of core rot is is labor intensive and a major undertaking. It's not rocket science or especially skill intensive so can be done by a relative novice. If you have a yard do it at $50-$100 an hour for labor, you are looking at BIG bucks.

Because of the teak deck, it will be very difficult to determine the condition of the core till you remove the teak decking, something I'd do irregardless of its condition. Teak decks are a maintenance headache with little, if any, real benefits.
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Old 26-12-2011, 11:14   #38
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Re: Tayana 42 for sale in Florida

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Celestial Sailors fix is for a deck core that is wet but not rotten or small areas only that are rotten. If there are large areas of the deck with rotten core, the fix is to remove the top or bottom layer of glass laminate, clean out the rotten core, epoxy in new core, and relaminate the FRP layer. The fix for a deck with large areas of core rot is is labor intensive and a major undertaking. It's not rocket science or especially skill intensive so can be done by a relative novice. If you have a yard do it at $50-$100 an hour for labor, you are looking at BIG bucks.

Because of the teak deck, it will be very difficult to determine the condition of the core till you remove the teak decking, something I'd do irregardless of its condition. Teak decks are a maintenance headache with little, if any, real benefits.
Correct on all counts....Where'd this guy go? Did we scare him off or is he shelling out green backs?
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Old 26-12-2011, 18:25   #39
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Re: Tayana 42 for sale in Florida

Thank's guy's I just might skip it the area is so small,I have seen deck core plugs and 1/2 is coring there is another 1/2 of glass,that's more than my present boat total with coring.
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Old 28-12-2011, 13:52   #40
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Re: Tayana 42 for sale in Florida

Nope,

I'm still here. I have been working nights and starting to get run down. Just switched to days and only have another 2 weeks to go.

You are correct, i have fallen in love with this boat and that will probably cloud my judgment. That said, if the deck is rotted and in need of an extensive replacement, that would be a deal breaker. My question, is how do i know without drilling holes to find out? The teak deck will hide any soft spots from above......

I also believe you are correct, that the engine will not be the biggest item i need to worry about.

I will try to find a surveyor in the area and see if an in water survey can be done before i get there.

I really do appreciate the advice on what to look for and ideas on what it will cost. this will help me decide once i get there to see the boat.

Keep the post coming, this is all helping me.

Thanks
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Old 28-12-2011, 14:07   #41
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Re: Tayana 42 for sale in Florida

helmanta,In all respects any boat of this vintage will need something,even ones that look great,on the plus side if and when you refit a boat YOU will realy know her,and all systems will be new or next to.Regarding the decks,a moister reading from the inside will give some clue as to moister content,or with the owners permission remove random bun's back out the screw's take a small thin wire has to be strong stainless,put a small bend in it perhaps 30 or so degrees insert into screw hole at an angle see how far it will penetrate easily if not coring is not wet if so how far back before meeting resistence,not foolproff but a guide.Good Luck and don't forget the bottom more money to correct than the Deck's.
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Old 28-12-2011, 16:52   #42
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Re: Tayana 42 for sale in Florida

Sort of continuing "Casual's" idea - if the deck is cored and water has gotten into the coring - look around inside the cabin at the ceiling that is underneath the cored deck areas. Normally, there are some light fixtures or other things screwed up into the bottom of the cored deck. Look for evidence of black areas or metal which is caused by water getting to the screws. If it can be done remove a screw here and there to see if it has been "eaten" away due to water in the coring. Carefully put them back, of course.
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Old 28-12-2011, 18:49   #43
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Re: Tayana 42 for sale in Florida

The quick answer is, walk away. You can find a much better boat for $28k. I bought a Columbia 41 for $25,000. The engine had 100 hours on it at that time. My boat has spent most of it's life on the hardstand. I am living on that boat now. When I bought mine the next boat over was a Morgan 41 with the asking price of $35k. Keep looking. If you have the cash you will find the boat you want. Be patient.
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Old 02-01-2012, 21:12   #44
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Re: Tayana 42 for sale in Florida

Hello Troy,

You received some excellent replies to your query! I have so much more to add I'll make three posts out of the information, one as a Tayana V-42 owner, one as a surveyor, and one about the V-42 decks. Since that is most important to me I'll start as a 1983 V-42 owner. (Haha, my boat owns me!)

My boat was in much less worse condition than the one you are considering and I've put in close to 2000 hours per year for the last four years and still have another year of work to do. I live aboard so I don't have to pay extra to store the boat while I work on it, and I can (and do) work any and all hours of the day or night because I do not have to drive to get to it. I am emphatically fastidious, so you can choose to do half as good of a job as I'm doing, that's 1000 hours per year, but no matter your effort I doubt that you'll finish the work in less than five years.

Boracay is also correct that project boats affect relationships. Many things go into a relationship falling apart, but a frequent accusation of my last husband was that I am married to my boat. (We had His and Hers boats and I think he should take better care of his boat.) You and your wife seem to be going into this together - you'll be fine, right? Between the time, money and effort required, and all the choices that must be made to fix that boat you are very likely to have conflicts of interest over that five+ year period.

I also agree that your estimate of $20,000 is grossly deficient. You will spend that on the rigging alone. You'll spend $1000 on tools and safety equipment, $1000 on consumables such as rubber gloves, paper towels, sealants and solvents, $1000 on hose, fittings and hose clamps (osirissail was being serious about B.O.A.T.), yes, the list is seemingly endless. I am also an ABYC Certified Corrosion Technician as such have reason to think the prop shaft on that vessel may need to be renewed - another $1000. For the same reasons the stainless rudder post may also need to be renewed - many thousand$. Everything requiring attention will be attached to something else that is broken or needs fixing - my first two years for every project I crossed off the list ten more were added. You are considering a neglected boat that Tayana equipped to last 30 years - everything needs renewing.

And if you are like most people you'll also want a water maker, autopilot, inverter, and other electronics as mentioned in previous posts - easily $20,000 there.

BTW, have you looked into the expense of towing the boat to a yard? I do not know the distance to the yard you are considering, I seem to remember that the broker wrote there are two yards within 60 miles of the boat. It wouldn't surprise me if you would have spent $1000 by time the boat is blocked on the hard.

A very few of my projects to address your questions posted to the Tayana Owner's Group: There is a tiny brass fitting for the holding tank vent hose, when I renewed the hose it snapped off - since I had to mess with it, might as well close off that little hole and install two standard-size vents so the tank can get some oxygen and stop smelling so bad. The 30 year old stainless steel fittings for the waste going in and out of that holding tank are rusty and also need to be renewed. (I was trying to postpone that project until the day after I died, but if I don't do it soon I will wish I was dead!)

All the hoses needed to be renewed. This hose, attached to a below-the-waterline seacock, split in half when I moved it. The same nasty hose is used to fill the water tanks - you'll want to renew those too.

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Here is an example of Tayana joinery - this cabinet was built around the chain plate (the other side was also inaccessible). I had to cut up the cabinet to pull the chain plate for inspection (two of my six shroud chain plates have crevice corrosion). Also notice the exposed fiberglass - it was impossible to access any deck fittings, and everything had mold behind it from deck leaks so I finally gave up and ripped out the inside of my boat. What was once a beautiful cabin now looks like something out of a Mad Max movie. I like being able to see all my bolts and wiring, but if you don't then add the cost to rebuild the cabin to that $100,000.

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The jib sheet track bolts leaked and the deck core was mush there. The headliner is glued onto plywood that is nailed onto the underside of the deck - there is no access to the deck or any deck hardware without ripping it out - it cannot be removed without destroying it. (That square thing on the right is a mirror - you'll get good with those real quick.)

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Here I also had to cut notches in the cabinet to access the nuts for the jib sheet track. This galley cabinet is the same one pictured in my post about the decks, and you can see a leak from the jib sheet tracks there.

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When I ripped out the insides of the galley cabinets to access the underside of the deck and renew the fuel fill hose I uncovered the copper propane line to the stove. It was heavily corroded from the toe rail leaking onto it (you can see part of it in the bottom right of the cabinet above), so I renewed it with rubber hose. In the process of my unsuccessful attempt to connect the modern fittings to the old stove I found that the propane feed lines inside the stove were corroded beyond their useful life and I had to purchase a new stove.

You will also want to renew those 30-year old bolts on the cleats - you'll have to rip out the headliner to get at the nuts. Then of course, might as well upgrade those micky mouse little cleats to ones substantial enough for that size vessel.

Here is another of the thousand unforeseen projects - an insect built this impressive nest inside one of the fuel tank vent hoses. The tank could not vent - this was a MUST do completely unanticipated project, and, like the propane line and stove innards, something a surveyor won't find. It was very difficult to remove the vent hose - have you noticed the Project Extender Phrase?? MIGHT AS WELL Since the vent hose is off might as well renew it with modern approved vent hose. And need to check the other fuel tank too....

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Time and money, time and money - it is very easy to quickly ring up $100,000 and 5000 hours on an old boat. (Hey, that's only $20/hour to work on your boat!)

Cosmetic water damage is your least and last concern with that boat. My recommendation is to continue saving your money until you find a better boat - there are always two or three V-42s on the market. But, no matter what boat you buy you will likely spend many thousands of dollars in repairs and upgrades and a year or more working on it.

Whether you buy this boat or another one, if you do not know how to fix something that is not a problem - there are many helpful books available and the people on Cruiser's Forum are invaluable. You CAN do it, and it may be the most fun, rewarding thing that has ever happened to you. But it is also possible to botch many things, lose a lot of money, and wreck your marriage. Although my boat has been the best thing to ever happen to me, I wasn't planning to purchase a project boat in the first place, and hope to never fix another one.
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Old 02-01-2012, 21:28   #45
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Re: Tayana 42 for sale in Florida

My advice as a surveyor is: Do not have the boat surveyed. You already know that boat is in terrible condition, you would be purchasing a hull and possibly as mast - it is a waste of money to pay someone to go through the boat for five hours and give you a 15-page report (too often just an inventory) covering less than half of what you will discover on your own, and telling you what you already know: the boat is in terrible condition. It would be more informative to take someone with you who has already rebuilt a boat, AND take along a West Marine catalog so you can look up the prices of new pumps, a new head, light bulbs ... as you go through the boat.

Even if I was still surveying I would not survey it for you because I would not risk my health by surveying a moldy boat, and unfortunately I know of no other surveyor who is nearly as detail oriented as I was. But for comparison purposes, it would take me one to two full days to survey a neglected boat like that, I charged by the hour so my fee for that boat would run between $1000 and $2000. In return you would get a 100 to 200 page report (including annotated photos) listing the condition of every last part of that boat.

This is good because my findings would would give you an accurate and detailed prioritized project list in hand and you could estimate many projects and their costs without even seeing the boat. This is bad because no insurance company would touch that boat after reading my report. And you would also have many new doubts and questions because I KNOW where hidden troubles are for that boat and the report would have many things listed that I could not inspect because disassembly or destruction of the vessel was required.

arisatx - BUC pricing is not a useful valuation tool - when valuing boats for Condition and Value Surveys BUC value was always significantly above my calculations using actual market information. I mention this because the broker has the boat priced near the BUC Restorable Condition value.
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