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Old 06-07-2011, 20:33   #1
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Question Tartan or Sabre ? Here's a Couple of Examples

Tartan: 2005 3700 for 229k

Wagner Stevens Yachts (Annapolis, MD)

1994 sabre 42 for 199k
Wagner Stevens Yachts (Annapolis, MD)

1988 sabre 42 for 168k
1988 Sabre Yachts 42 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

My inclination is the 37 tartan or the 1988. She looks like she was well cared for.

My situation and goal are to have her as a part time live abord in Boston. Kept in the water year round next door to our home in the north end. We will spend long hauls in the summer with time aboard pushing 70 percent for us. This wont mean we won't be moored in a harbor somewhere along the east coast, just that we need space to actually live on the boat when we are away from these times.

Your thought and input would be valued.

Cheers

-Jonathan

We have 2 kids 5 and 7.
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:23   #2
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Re: Tartan or Sabre ? Here's a Couple Examples

The 1994 Sabre 42 doesn't come up on the link and I couldn't find it listed @ wagners.

The 88 looks like a great boat ....I would take a closer look at it, I'd look closely at the bulkeads where the chainplates attach and the mast step...along with everything else..Get a good sounding of all the decks especially around deck penetrations for water intrusion ( soft spots)

I also like the Tartans, I've read that the company had a number of issues, but I don't remember all the specifics or if any of the issues were relevant to this model. You might want to research that.

There's a $60,000 spread in asking price and a 7 year age difference and 5 foot difference in size. So it's not really an apple to apple comparison.

Since you'll be charged by the Foot..for just about anything you do...slip or mooring fees haul out costs...etc..maintenance costs etc...annual recurring costs for the 42' will be greater...
Westerbeake parts are expensive...( I know) Both engines have low hours though.

Either boat has sufficient room for your family imo.

I think closer inspection of both boats would be a worthwhile exercise.
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Old 07-07-2011, 15:16   #3
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Re: Tartan or Sabre ? Here's a Couple Examples

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The 1994 Sabre 42 doesn't come up on the link and I couldn't find it listed @ wagners.

The 88 looks like a great boat ....I would take a closer look at it, I'd look closely at the bulkeads where the chainplates attach and the mast step...along with everything else..Get a good sounding of all the decks especially around deck penetrations for water intrusion ( soft spots)

I also like the Tartans, I've read that the company had a number of issues, but I don't remember all the specifics or if any of the issues were relevant to this model. You might want to research that.

There's a $60,000 spread in asking price and a 7 year age difference and 5 foot difference in size. So it's not really an apple to apple comparison.

Since you'll be charged by the Foot..for just about anything you do...slip or mooring fees haul out costs...etc..maintenance costs etc...annual recurring costs for the 42' will be greater...
Westerbeake parts are expensive...( I know) Both engines have low hours though.

Either boat has sufficient room for your family imo.

I think closer inspection of both boats would be a worthwhile exercise.
Apologies on the link. here it is.

1994 Sabre 425 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

i hear you on the apples to apple with the difference in size. I suppose a better questions would be WHICH of the two sabres look like a better value. and then more of a question on the two brands. is there a tartan that is closer to compare? any other suggestions?

obviously the price of the 88 is more desirable. If i can save 50-80k and get a great boat for the next several years that still is worth something come upgrade time, im all about it! i really appreciate the pointers. Im looking at the 1994 sabre next tuesday and hopefully the 88 the following week as well.

-Jonathan
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Old 07-07-2011, 19:41   #4
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Re: Tartan or Sabre ? Here's a Couple Examples

is it beyond comprehension to ask if there was a recent survey done on there boats? i asked the gentleman with the 1988 sabre is there was one and got a one word reply. NO.

Is it just me or should someone in this economy be trying a little harder to get us to part with our hard earned money? man on man that gets me fired up...
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Old 07-07-2011, 20:05   #5
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Re: Tartan or Sabre ? Here's a Couple Examples

I know someone who is selling his Tartan 40 which is in great shape Loks new). Its a S & S design - a little more traditional looking- ie not 11 wide at transom. The price is more like 110 to 120k. If you have any interest please contact me and I'll put you in touch. (he does not have a broker involved yet)
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Old 07-07-2011, 20:26   #6
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Re: Tartan or Sabre ? Here's a Couple Examples

A 2005 vs a 1998 vs a 1988?

The easy answer come is the form of a question: How much do you enjoy fixing things?
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Old 07-07-2011, 20:27   #7
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Re: Tartan or Sabre ? Here's a Couple Examples

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A 2005 vs a 1998 vs a 1988?

The easy answer come is the form of a question: How much do you enjoy fixing things?

the common or near common denominator is the price. if you have input id welcome it. otherwise no worries.
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Old 07-07-2011, 20:34   #8
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Re: Tartan or Sabre ? Here's a Couple Examples

If you want a seller who's "needs" to sell, you're not likely to find it in a guy who owns a mint condition Sabre 42. When I sold my last boat (50ft) I told the Broker to ignore several guys who wanted to worry about every little thing. I had better things to do with my time and was in no hurry.

When the right guy came along, we agreed on price is 10 minutes. He did a survey but nothing was found that changed the deal (I take very good care of my boats). He loves the boat and sends me pictures from his trips.

Not every deal works out so well but that Sabre's going to sell for a good price. There's always a short supply of boats like that.

It also wouldn't surprise me if he's planning a last season of sailing in Maine.

Carl
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Old 07-07-2011, 20:40   #9
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Re: Tartan or Sabre ? Here's a Couple Examples

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If you want a seller who's "needs" to sell, you're not likely to find it in a guy who owns a mint condition Sabre 42. When I sold my last boat (50ft) I told the Broker to ignore several guys who wanted to worry about every little thing. I had better things to do with my time and was in no hurry.

When the right guy came along, we agreed on price is 10 minutes. He did a survey but nothing was found that changed the deal (I take very good care of my boats). He loves the boat and sends me pictures from his trips.

Not every deal works out so well but that Sabre's going to sell for a good price. There's always a short supply of boats like that.

It also wouldn't surprise me if he's planning a last season of sailing in Maine in that pretty boat

Carl

Thanks for the note Carl. i also agree there isnt room in life for endless negotiations. as a matter of fact i would think asking for a recent survey would potentially preclude the need for another one and could lead to a speedy negotiation. but you need to know what you're getting beyond someone saying i take really good care of my boats.... so im not sure i understand your comment about finding someone "needing to sell."

thanks for your valuable input!
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Old 07-07-2011, 21:02   #10
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Re: Tartan or Sabre ? Here's a Couple Examples

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbingham View Post
is it beyond comprehension to ask if there was a recent survey done on there boats? i asked the gentleman with the 1988 sabre is there was one and got a one word reply. NO.

Is it just me or should someone in this economy be trying a little harder to get us to part with our hard earned money? man on man that gets me fired up...
Well JB, I think that your being fired up shows your inexperience in this case. It is not the responsibility of the seller to provide a recent survey to a prospective buyer. It is now and has always been the buyer who commissions and pays for a survey.

No buyer in his right mind would value too highly a survey done for the seller, and so would do it all over again anyway.

Come down off your high horse and realize that it it is you who must evaluate a prospective purchase and negotiate a price representative of that evaluation.

At this distance it sounds like the seller has a boat that is in desireable enough shape that a buyer might well have a look and make his own evaluation.

You are looking at boats of reasonable original quality and I hope that you can find one that meets all your expectations.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 07-07-2011, 21:08   #11
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Re: Tartan or Sabre ? Here's a Couple Examples

I don't know that I can help you choose between the two models in question. I'm on my second Tartan and love her, but I've lusted after more than one Sabre. (Sinning only in my mind, mind you.) As points in favor of the Marblehead Sabre, we bought our current Tartan 40 from Linda Warren. The boat had also been kept at Dion's yard in Salem, MA. They were first rate in all the work they did for us over the past year. Since you're considering a boat over fifteen years old, how it's been maintained and by whom is an important issue. Dion's gets plus points in our experience.

If you were to offer me a 1994 Sabre 425 in a straight up trade for my 1989 Tartan 40, I'd probably take it. If you asked me to throw in an extra $70K for the Sabre, I'd laugh and walk away. The Tartan 3700 is a very different boat. I prefer the S&S Tartans and the Sabres but understand the attraction of a newer boat.
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Old 07-07-2011, 21:22   #12
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Re: Tartan or Sabre ? Here's a Couple Examples

it sounds like you've got the right perspective - but there are some guys who are permanent boat "shoppers". They negotiate until they and the seller are dug in and the deal falls apart. Try selling a boat and you'll meet some.

"Need to sell" is just that. Sabre 42's tended to be bought by pretty well off people. He might be just as happy selling it three years from now. Or later.

I could be wrong but I'd guess under half of boats for sale (except really old ones) have a recent survey. It costs money. And any buyer is going to do their own. Sometimes there's a survey that was required by the insurance company for renewal. I've never done one or had one given to me for any boat I've bought. It's not wrong to ask but I don't think you should be upset that one's not available.

And don't put too much faith in any survey. They are a useful tool but I've had very mixed results despite hiring "the best" surveyors. Fortunately almost everything on a fiberglass boat (except bad de-lamination or core rot) is fixable for a small fraction of the cost of the boat. Put aside 20% extra for first year repairs. If you don't spend it all, you're doing better than most.

Everyone has their own approach. I tend to buy boats in great condition for top dollar. I'm convinced I save money and enjoy the boat more in the long run. Other folks love the fixer-upper even if they can't go sailing for two years because of repairs. Nothing wrong with that approach either.

Good luck. Hope you find a boat you love. That Sabre makes my heart skip a beat.

Carl
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Old 07-07-2011, 21:28   #13
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Re: Tartan or Sabre ? Here's a Couple Examples

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Originally Posted by Jbingham View Post
the common or near common denominator is the price. if you have input id welcome it. otherwise no worries.
You seem to have missed the input. If you don't enjoy fixing things, or paying for them to be fixed, buy the newer boat.
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Old 07-07-2011, 21:41   #14
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Re: Tartan or Sabre ? Here's a Couple Examples

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You seem to have missed the input. If you don't enjoy fixing things, or paying for them to be fixed, buy the newer boat.
i got it. really i did. buying older means more issues. thank you!
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Old 07-07-2011, 21:47   #15
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Re: Tartan or Sabre ? Here's a Couple Examples

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Originally Posted by tartansail View Post
I don't know that I can help you choose between the two models in question. I'm on my second Tartan and love her, but I've lusted after more than one Sabre. (Sinning only in my mind, mind you.) As points in favor of the Marblehead Sabre, we bought our current Tartan 40 from Linda Warren. The boat had also been kept at Dion's yard in Salem, MA. They were first rate in all the work they did for us over the past year. Since you're considering a boat over fifteen years old, how it's been maintained and by whom is an important issue. Dion's gets plus points in our experience.

If you were to offer me a 1994 Sabre 425 in a straight up trade for my 1989 Tartan 40, I'd probably take it. If you asked me to throw in an extra $70K for the Sabre, I'd laugh and walk away. The Tartan 3700 is a very different boat. I prefer the S&S Tartans and the Sabres but understand the attraction of a newer boat.
this is so helpful. im actually meeting with Linda! she was very helpful and got right back to me to set up the time to view the boat. points for me there. PS sinning in the mind is ok.
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