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Old 04-09-2012, 13:20   #1
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Tartan 41 & Similar to

I've recently made an offer on Diablo, a T41 in Erie, Pa. The seller and I may be too far apart to make a deal? I'm looking for advice...

The most important thing is that my wife loves the open layout of the Tartan 41 better than any of the dozen other boats weíve looked at. I love the speed, blue water capability and reputation of the 1970ís T41. We are looking to stay under $40k, find a boat that sails well (PHRF below ~120), can be sailed comfortably/safely in blue water and has some cruising amenities in the 40 foot length, give or take a few. The Tartan 41 meets our needs, but the price is an issue. Weíve looked at a CAL 39í, but the Aft layout is more closed in and no spin rig on the boat we saw.

Dutchess (YW# 1935-2313487) is a T41 asking $44k in CA. It has cruising amenities added, like bow roller and windlass, Bimini, Pilot berth and drop table conversion, which Diablo does not have. Assuming the boat is in good condition, sheís less money than diablo even after $9k to ship across the country.

My Qís:
1) Does anyone know anything about the Tartan 41, Dutchess in Sausalito, CA? Searches for her specifically gave little. Price seems too good, so Iím wondering whatís wrong with her? broker hasn't replied yet.
2) What other boats in the Mid 70ís to early 80ís may fit the speed, offshore capable, cruising comfort and under $40k cost that Iím looking for (sim to T41)? Note that I plan to add $10k - $15k in outfitting over the next few years. I just donít have the whole $55k at the moment.

Brief about me; I have mostly racing OPB experience, a lot of which has been on a Mumm30. Iíve also done a half dozen bareboat charts in 34í to 47í range in the Caribbean and Chesapeake. This is my first keelboat purchase (I have a few dinghies) and my first post to the forum. Iím willing to sail the boat home (East CT) from anywhere on the east coast.

Happy Sailing!
Thanks
Zach
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Old 04-09-2012, 20:53   #2
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Phrf?
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Old 04-09-2012, 21:39   #3
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Re: Tartan 41 & Similar to

Performance Handicap Racing Fleet - Google is your friend!
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Old 04-09-2012, 21:55   #4
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Re: Tartan 41 & Similar to

perhaps I am missing something here, but the one on PA seems to be only $900 higher asking price. All things being equal on both boats (which i am sure they are not) it seems like the one in PA has two distinct advantages; New engine and not so far from home. It seems like you would be better off to make it happen with them....
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:44   #5
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Re: Tartan 41 & Similar to

Yeah, Diablo is closer and has new power, but also needs significant repair of delamination to her Deck. The cost to ship Dutchess from CA is about the same cost as the repair to Diable. So after paying for shipping to CT, the 2 are about the same price... and duchess has some nice stuff.

I did talk to the broker for dutchess yesterday. The boat needs no significant repair and he's unaware of any serious problems, so he says... still the 'too good to be true' price, make me nervous. Anyone out in San Fran willing to tap on the deck for a bang-bang, thud-thud?
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:35   #6
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Re: Tartan 41 & Similar to

As far as PHRF, that's a handicap system to allow dissimilar boats to race against one another. The lower your PHRF the faster the boat and more time you owe to a higher PHRF boat. So you can use the number as an indicator of performance. For a 40' boat, a PHRF around 200 is a bath tub with a stick, 150 a cruising purposed boat, under 100 is getting racy or at least a performance oriented racer/cruiser. The Tartan 41 PHRF is about 100, a J-39 PHRF is ~50 and a 1970's Morgan 41' out island center cockpit cruiser PHRF is 195 (if you want to race it).
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:36   #7
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Re: Tartan 41 & Similar to

There is one that's been sitting here, on the hard, for 5 years. It doesn't have the updated keel. If this issue hasn't come up in your research, you should at least be aware of it.
TARTAN 41 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
http://www.sparkmanstephens.info/doc...eDDFrKjMWR.pdf
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:08   #8
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Re: Tartan 41 & Similar to

The T-37 is always a good choice (a bit biased) and retains her value unless severly neglected. I think you'll find the accomodations to be similar to some degree except the T-41 has a longer cockpit.
After a quick search, there are 6 T-41's on YW right now with 4 of them on the East coast. There are 18 T-37's listed scattered around the country.
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:21   #9
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Re: Tartan 41 & Similar to

There's an active Tartan owner's group at tartansailing@yahoogroups.com. You may find someone who knows these boats and can give you more background. There are also T-41 and 42 owners who may be able to help with things to look out for beyond the usual for any 40 yo boat.
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Old 05-09-2012, 17:11   #10
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Re: Tartan 41 & Similar to

Thanks, I am now a member of the tartan group on yahoo and have already found someone who has looked at dutchess, though I'm not sure he was seriously looking to buy it and may not have had a detailed look.

A T37 is a totally different boat.. not for me. we were looking at boats like C&C40's (early 80's), CAL 39, etc. But still like the T41, specifically the double quarter berths aft.

Anyone ever ship 10 tons of boat across the USA?
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Old 05-09-2012, 18:17   #11
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Re: Tartan 41 & Similar to

Quote:
Originally Posted by zstine View Post
Anyone ever ship 10 tons of boat across the USA?
No, but I have shipped 40 tons of stamping die components.

The cost to ship that boat (or is it yacht?) across the country is going to make you cry. At 12'-3" it will be a wide load all the way, I think. It will be about 3,000 miles at about $2.50 per mile plus rigging. My safe guess: $8,000.
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Old 05-09-2012, 19:14   #12
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Re: Tartan 41 & Similar to

2) What other boats in the Mid 70ís to early 80ís may fit the speed, offshore capable, cruising comfort and under $40k cost that Iím looking for (sim to T41)? Note that I plan to add $10k - $15k in outfitting over the next few years. I just donít have the whole $55k at the moment

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +

The Pearson 40 is very similar to the T41. Similar in performance (Phrf 104-114), price also. Draft is less - it has CB

Here is an example from Yacht world:

View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com

Regards
Ovi
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Old 05-09-2012, 21:00   #13
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Re: Tartan 41 & Similar to

Call this guy...
Kensington Yacht & Ship Brokers (San Jose, CA)
It's a one man show and he is very helpful and knows T41's well.
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Old 05-09-2012, 21:55   #14
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Re: Tartan 41 & Similar to

A Tartan 41 under $40K?

Kinda like telling the waiter you'd like to order a filet mignon under four bucks.
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Old 06-09-2012, 04:59   #15
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Re: Tartan 41 & Similar to

OK, This one may stretch your budget a little, but once renovated, she will (could) substantially increase in value.
1972 Nautor Swan 43 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

They are askign a bit more, but in today's market, they might just take what you offer!

It looks like you are definitely going for a performance cruiser with a classic look. Swans have been regarded as top notch boats for a long time and with a little TLC, this one could be brought back to prime, from what I see from the pictures.
By the way, the Tartan 37 also came with a fixed fin that improved her racing performance. This version draws 6'-7", no center board.

P.S. I have absolutely no affiliation with the above boat, just having fun looking.
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